Ebola, coming to a place near you soon!

joepistole said:
At least 6 states have implemented an Ebola quarantine. This is a pretty clear vote of no confidence in the CDC, NIH and the administration.
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2 of those just backed off their quarantines and said "well, just stay home if you're sick" - a clear vote of confidence for the CDC. Good news!
Obama's government is in the strange and contradictory position of imposing mandatory quarantines on military personnel, but opposing civilian use of quarantines for Ebola. That's more than a little hypocritical.
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And military personnel can be required to remain on-base even during times they are not on duty. More hypocrisy! And they can be court-martialed for disobeying orders, but civilians can't be. It's almost like there are different rules for military personnel than for civilians.
 
billvon said:
2 of those just backed off their quarantines and said "well, just stay home if you're sick" - a clear vote of confidence for the CDC. Good news!
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That isn't backing off, it is still a quarantine.

billvon said:
And military personnel can be required to remain on-base even during times they are not on duty. More hypocrisy! And they can be court-martialed for disobeying orders, but civilians can't be. It's almost like there are different rules for military personnel than for civilians.
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That isn't hypocrisy. Civilians can also be ordered into a quarantine also...just ask that nurse who was recently placed into quarantine in New Jersey or the physician who is now hospitalized in New York. We and nations around the world have successfully used quarantines for centuries to contain contagious diseases.

It isn't relevant here, but the military does have a different set of rules. It's called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice
 
I have to wonder why highly trained nurses and physicians are needed in the Ebola afflicted countries as there is no cure for the disease. Those physicians and nurses are providing very basic and simple care, care that could be administered by anyone with a little training. They are not containing the disease as the epidemic continues to grow. So I have to question what value are they providing?

If they are training, local people to manage the infected and to care for them, that is one thing. If they are providing direct care, and that appears to be the case, I think one has to question the value of that activity. That would appear to be analogous to bailing water out of a sinking ship with a thimble. It's pretty obvious Doctors Without Borders is loosing this battle. I think they need to rethink what they are doing in the region. They need to do something differently. Because what they are doing isn't working.

American troops are now in the region building infrastructure which will allow those countries to better manage the infected population, to provide housing and isolation units and to train locals in the care of infected people. That seems like a winnable strategy to me. But merely taking comfort and care of the growing masses of infected individuals isn't going to cut it. Atnd it would seem to me there are plenty of good local individual who could with a little training provide what Doctors Without Borders is currently providing in the region.
billvon said:
Different rules for military vs civilians? HYPOCRISY!

Uh -OK. I guess my company quarantines employees who are sick.
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No it's the Constitution. And it isn't relevant. And your company isn't a government and doesn't have the power thereof.
 
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From the CDC Q&A
Can Ebola spread by coughing? By sneezing?
Unlike respiratory illnesses like measles or chickenpox, which can be transmitted by virus particles that remain suspended in the air after an infected person coughs or sneezes, Ebola is transmitted by direct contact with body fluids of a person who has symptoms of Ebola disease. Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.
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http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

So, it is not airborne because the symptoms of the illness do not usually cause coughing and sneezing.
However, if someone with Ebola sneezes then there is a possibility of transmission.
And if you come into contact with vomit, a common symptom, then you are toast, medically speaking.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
From the CDC Q&A


http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

So, it is not airborne because the symptoms of the illness do not usually cause coughing and sneezing.
However, if someone with Ebola sneezes then there is a possibility of transmission.
And if you come into contact with vomit, a common symptom, then you are toast, medically speaking.
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Well this argument that Ebola is not airborne is a little disingenuous. Projectile vomiting can aerosolize body fluids.
 
Yes, you are right.
Same with explosive diarrhoea.
By that time the person is not likely to be on public transport, unless it has got worse while on a long journey.
It could explain why a few people have contracted the disease despite wearing haz-suits
They are pussy footing around this issue.
They need to give people facts, not soothing propaganda.
It is not airborne in the same manner as colds and flu's are airborne.
They need to educate people.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
Yes, you are right.
Same with explosive diarrhoea.
By that time the person is not likely to be on public transport, unless it has got worse while on a long journey.
It could explain why a few people have contracted the disease despite wearing haz-suits
They are pussy footing around this issue.
They need to give people facts, not soothing propaganda.
It is not airborne in the same manner as colds and flu's are airborne.
They need to educate people.
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They are pussy footing around a number of issues. On the one hand (i.e. the Obama administration) we have folks like Dr. Frieden of the CDC repeatedly using the fledgling democracy and economic arguments to support the government's case for not imposing travel bans. Those are not medical arguments. Those are political and economic arguments. It seems to me this discussion should be about the science and not the political and economic implications for small number of very small countries. On the other hand we have people in Maine who don't want to attend lectures of a person with a close relationship to the nurse who was recently quarantined in New Jersey. That is a little much too. But one can understand it, given how folks like Frieden have acted and the things they have said and continue to say.

The reality is that since there is no cure for the disease. The only tool in our tool box is quarantine. We need to slow the transmission of the disease. And the only thing we have to do that is quarantine. That is the bottom line, that is the stark reality. We can send every medic in the nation to the afflicted region and it won't do anything but spread the disease.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?321976-1/hearing-us-response-ebola-outbreak

http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/30458412-452/hard-to-trust-experts-on-ebola.html#.VE-rI8J0zmI

Our health officials like Dr. Frieden need to begin sounding like physicians rather than politicians. The need to begin by being direct and honest. As I have written many times in this thread, our top docs have a serious credibility problem.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/what-if-kids-used-political-talking-points-n234156
 
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Captain Kremmen said:
And if you come into contact with vomit, a common symptom, then you are toast, medically speaking.
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If you come into contact with recent vomit AND it gets on a mucus membrane you could be toast. Skin is an effective barrier, so getting it on your hand won't doom you.
 
If you get it on your hand, you will get it on your face.
I won't look up the number of times you touch your face,
but it is once every minute or two at least.
Inexperienced actors try not to touch their faces.
 
@Joepistole
If they tell people half truths, people will start believing the salesmen predicting Armageddon.
Some of them are already selling bumper harvests of snake oil on the back of this.

i.e. Buy some conconction, and your immune system will be able to fight off Ebola.
Stupid.
 
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Captain Kremmen said:
If you get it on your hand, you will get it on your face.
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Right. And then you might transfer it to your face, and then it might make it into your nose. But that's rare. (As evidence of this, look at how many people Duncan was in contact with outside the hospital, _while_ he was contagious - and none got it.)

Honestly a lot of this reminds me of the "you can catch AIDS from toilet seats!" paranoia in the 1980's. COULD you catch HIV from a toilet seat? Sure, if a carrier had a festering sore on his butt and you had a cut in exactly the same location when you sat down. But the odds are pretty astronomical, and fortunately we didn't give in to the panic and ban gay men from public bathrooms. (And the solutions to that are both boring and mundane - clean the toilets, wash your hands, take care of minor cuts.)
 
OK, I'll accept that.
The current advice is about contact with fluids that fly though the air rather than aerosols or transferred infection.
So they mean the kind of sneeze that makes you feel wet from it.
To which my usual response is "Thanks for that".

Washing your hands is good belts and braces advice.
From the earlier link:

Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.
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Captain Kremmen said:
@Joepistole
If they tell people half truths, people will start believing the salesmen predicting Armageddon.
Some of them are already selling bumper harvests of snake oil on the back of this.

i.e. Buy some conconction, and your immune system will be able to fight off Ebola.
Stupid.
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That is part of the problem. The nation's top doc have lost a great deal of credibility by acting more like politicians than docs. I mean really, what does the fledgling status of these West African nations have to do with Ebola and protecting the United States....nothing, absolutely nothing. So when the top docs loose there credibility as they have done in the US, it opens the door to charlatans and conspiracy nuts. It is not surprising American right wing conspiracy nut jobs like Rush Limbaugh and company are using the issue to support their ratings and stir up their devotees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/sunday-review/the-ebola-conspiracy-theories.html?_r=0
 
billvon said:
Right. And then you might transfer it to your face, and then it might make it into your nose. But that's rare. (As evidence of this, look at how many people Duncan was in contact with outside the hospital, _while_ he was contagious - and none got it.)

Honestly a lot of this reminds me of the "you can catch AIDS from toilet seats!" paranoia in the 1980's. COULD you catch HIV from a toilet seat? Sure, if a carrier had a festering sore on his butt and you had a cut in exactly the same location when you sat down. But the odds are pretty astronomical, and fortunately we didn't give in to the panic and ban gay men from public bathrooms. (And the solutions to that are both boring and mundane - clean the toilets, wash your hands, take care of minor cuts.)
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Well it is not quite as safe as you are making it out to be. We have numerous small breaks in our skin, so direct exposure to skin can infect a person. It appears to have infected the two Texas nurses. Officials now think the reason those Texas nurses got the disease is because their necks were exposed. And if our top docs are to believed the Ebola virus can be transferred by touching surfaces but it isn't very likely because the virus does not live long outside the body.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-carrying-bats-may-heroes-well-villains-094445020.html said:
Bats can carry more than 100 different viruses, including Ebola, rabies and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), without becoming sick themselves.

While that makes them a fearsome reservoir of disease, especially in the forests of Africa where they migrate vast distances, it also opens the intriguing possibility that scientists might learn their trick in keeping killers like Ebola at bay.

"If we can understand how they do it then that could lead to better ways to treat infections that are highly lethal in people and other mammals," said Olivier Restif, a researcher at the University of Cambridge in Britain.
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