I AM an Astrologer!

[Repo Man]

I also agree that there are astrologers that give bad advice as well as doctors who give bad advice.

There are ways of telling the difference between real doctors, and false or bad ones. There is no way to tell the difference between "real" astrologers, and false ones. That's the same as trying to differentiate between "real" psychics and false ones.

Since no one has brought it up yet, prove that astrology can make accurate predictions of future events, and win a million dollars! http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

 

[Sapphrina]

As per Randi for his challenge:

This statement outlines the rules covering the offer made by this Foundation (JREF) concerning psychic, supernatural or paranormal claims. Since claims vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant. All applicants must agree to the rules set forth herein before any formal agreement can be entered into. Completing this form is mandatory; there are no exceptions to this rule.

I never said that I was a psychic or that astrology is supernatural or paranormal. You don't have to be a psychic to be able to read astrology charts. It's basis is not in the supernatural nor the paranormal. It goes back to ancient times where the astrologers were astronomers also. It is in every major culture or civilisation in the World.
You can get "bad" advice from real doctors. That is a given in todays World. Happens all the time. Did you read up about Evangeline Adams who was arrested as a "fortune teller" and then proved to the judge that she was in fact a bonafide astrologer?

 

[Oli]

Did you read up about Evangeline Adams who was arrested as a "fortune teller" and then proved to the judge that she was in fact a bonafide astrologer?

So?
Judges are not qualified, or empowered, to decide what is science and what isn't.
He made a LEGAL decision, nothing more.

 

[Sapphrina]

Yes, a legal decision that DID influence the people at the time which then gave more credence to her ability as an astrologer.

 

[Repo Man]

Saying "bonafide astrologer" is like "genuine plastic". If astrology cannot make accurate predictions of future events, what can it do? And there is no scientific basis for an ability to predict the future. There is no scientific basis for astrology.

 

[Sapphrina]

Ah, but she did make accurate predictions, as in WW2...

 

[Oli]

Yes, a legal decision that DID influence the people at the time which then gave more credence to her ability as an astrologer.

Yup: but did not make it science, or indeed, declare it to be one.
People are gullible: they listen to such as judges (who are no more or less gullible on non-legal matters than most others).
Granted, she could well have been a bona-fide astrologer: all that means is that the law recognised that she did it. for a living
Not that the law recognised (or proved) that what she did was real, true or valid.

 

[Oli]

Ah, but she did make accurate predictions, as in WW2...

Oh yeah:
"the USA will go to war for racial, political or religious reasons in '42, '43 and '44".
Pretty wide remit there, and she missed a year.
Much like saying "next week on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday you'll have an accident".

 

[Read-Only]

I never said that I was a psychic or that astrology is supernatural or paranormal. You don't have to be a psychic to be able to read astrology charts. It's basis is not in the supernatural nor the paranormal.

Agreed. But accepting that it actually MEANS something is equal to believing in the supernatural or paranormal. It's really based on the whimsical imagination of gullible human beings who mistakenly THINK they've found some sort of relationship between celestial bodies and the 'operations' of fellow humans.

In other words, it has no real basis whatsoever.

 

[Repo Man]

Ah, but she did make accurate predictions, as in WW2...

This is a bad joke. Anyone capable of accurately predicting future events would rapidly become very powerful and wealthy. Every government and corporation in the world would want this ability. They would be willing to do almost anything to possess this ability. It would completely alter our world.

No one can predict the future beyond an educated guess.

 

[Sapphrina]

The law recognized her as a real astrologer, she successfully defended her practice in a court of law by accurate and deft prophecy, and her words are still a hallmark of astrological teaching.

 

[Repo Man]

The law recognized her as a real astrologer, she successfully defended her practice in a court of law by accurate and deft prophecy, and her words are still a hallmark of astrological teaching.

None of that changes the fact that astrology is pseudoscientific gibberish that is only given credibility by gullible fools, and few smart people who should know better.

 

[Sapphrina]

Oh but great men and women of our World have used astrology: Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Sir Francis Bacon, Kepler, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, the list goes on. Are you saying that these people were gullible fools and not smart people who didn't know better?

 

[Repo Man]

Wow, a great combination of Appeal To Authority and Appeal To Tradition there. I can't help but notice your list comes to a screeching halt in the early nineteenth century.

Though your list is comprised of intelligent people, being intelligent doesn't guarantee that you don't believe in nonsensical things. There are things we know now that none of those people could possibly have known. And one of those things is that there is nothing useful about astrology.

 

[Oli]

The law recognized her as a real astrologer, she successfully defended her practice in a court of law by accurate and deft prophecy, and her words are still a hallmark of astrological teaching.

Correct: they recognised her as real astrologer: they didn't recognise astrology as being real.

Oh but great men and women of our World have used astrology: Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Sir Francis Bacon, Kepler, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, the list goes on. Are you saying that these people were gullible fools and not smart people who didn't know better?

Yes, in short.
Since astrology has shown no scientific basis then it was, and is, nothing more than superstition, guesswork and gullibility.

 

[Sapphrina]

Are you speaking of some of our "forefathers" that helped to shape our Country as Fools?

Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington are influenced by astrology and Egyptian-Alexandrian occult ideas supplied by esoteric astrologers in Germantown, Pennsylvania. Christopher Witt, the esoteric community's magister is a physician and astrologer. Much of the concern is to select the best times, ideas, designs of seals and monuments, to initiate activities that would lead to the creation of a nation powerful enough to withstand the attempts of Britain, the world superpower, to regain its prized colonies.
Benjamin Franklin publishes astrological Almanac 'Poor Richard's Almanack'

Astrolgy indeed became more acceptable after Evangeline Adams famous trial. Many famous people who have made money and changed our history relied on astrologers. Even 'ol Prez Ronnie Regan.

 

[Stryder]

Amazing. What are these great wonders you have seen that our 'ilk' will never see?

Why should I tell you? Can't you see it in the stars?

All I know is that you beginning to sound like a rather pompous and silly human being.

It's funny you should say that, I have been known to mimick people when conversation. My main reason for doing so isn't because I'm actually mimicking them but because it's a subconscious social interaction whereby my mimicking is intended to mirror their qualities and make them feel more at ease.

Occasionally some people tend to bring out my worst, this is usually caused by themselves being abrasive in ways, so if I come across as pompous or silly perhaps you should rethink how you come across to people since I'm an abstract mirror.

Oh but great men and women of our World have used astrology: Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Sir Francis Bacon, Kepler, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, the list goes on. Are you saying that these people were gullible fools and not smart people who didn't know better?

Actually it's known that a number of famous people dabbled in getting astrological readings, not because they believed in it but they wanted to identify the hoax and to educate themselves further on what is reality and that of fiction.

 

[Sapphrina]

When you have "real" scientists working w/astrology, does that make them foolish? Isn't working w/science and experimenting alot of guesswork? Many scientific discoveries were developed through alot of trial and error and guesswork.

 

[Sapphrina]

Well alot of educated people people found that there was something to astrology and believe in it. There are many who study on their own just to help themselves.

 

[Repo Man]

Astrolgy indeed became more acceptable after Evangeline Adams famous trial. Many famous people who have made money and changed our history relied on astrologers. Even 'ol Prez Ronnie Regan.

If by acceptable, you mean popular, it's irrelevant. As Bertand Russell famously said, "If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

And that Nancy Reagan took astrology seriously, and Ronnie apparently listened to her advice, doesn't elevate astrology; rather, it is indicative of a serious flaw in both of them. It was very frightening to think that the leader of the most powerful nation in the world apparently listened to a woman who believed in such utter nonsense.