I AM an Astrologer!

[Sapphrina]

So sayeth you. According to history, our "teflon" president did quite well in office even for taking advice of an astrologer as to what day and time for debates and meetings, etc. Yes, even in time of crisis.

 

[Repo Man]

Well alot of educated people people found that there was something to astrology and believe in it. There are many who study on their own just to help themselves.

Still with the Appeal to Popularity. The number of people who believe that they have been abducted by aliens does not change the fact that they are either deluded or lying.

And how do these people help themselves? What are they studying? how does it help them?

 

[Sapphrina]

So saeth you. Many in our country think that our "teflon" president did quite well in office even for using an astrologer for advice. She was used for many things such as day and times for debates and meetings and probably times of crisis which he handled pretty well.

 

[Stryder]

When you have "real" scientists working w/astrology, does that make them foolish? Isn't working w/science and experimenting alot of guesswork? Many scientific discoveries were developed through alot of trial and error and guesswork.

Theory is guesswork, Science isn't. Science involves having evidence and for that evidence to be tested by more than one experiment by more than one experimenter. By this no single experiment with a single observer (or group of observers) is enough to declare the consensus of what science should stand for.

Trial and Error is just one of the many ways to get a job done. In the Underground culture surrounding the mythical status of hacking, Crackers use a trial and error method referred to as Bruteforce, since Bruteforce is what is used when ignorance is at play (In regards to not knowing a password).

 

[Repo Man]

So sayeth you. According to history, our "teflon" president did quite well in office even for taking advice of an astrologer as to what day and time for debates and meetings, etc. Yes, even in time of crisis.

Moving on to post hoc. However good a president he was (I think he was terrible) there is certainly no good reason to believe his success was because his wife regularly consulted an astrologer.

 

[Sapphrina]

Sorry for double post. As for alien abduction, that is another can of worms or I think another part of this forum...
When you study astrology and realize that many people have similar characteristics that share the same "sun sign", that is somewhat co-incidental. When you can take the person out of the picture and then see the aspects and what they mean in relation to psychology in a chart, including yourself, you will understand that astrology has a scientific basis using established cycles. Astrology to me is a science that uses cycles to define a person's personality and psychological makeup. In olden days astrology was used only for the royal families, mundane things such as war. We have taken it to a more personal level. I, myself, on a personal level learned to understand family and friends through astrology. That neither makes me gullible nor foolish for using the astrology as a tool for understanding.

 

[Repo Man]

The point was that there are many people who will say that they have been abducted by aliens, and some who actually believe it. That doesn't change the fact that none have been.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless. That you have "used" astrology to understand people does nothing to change that there is no empirical evidence to support any of the claims that astrology makes, anymore than the insistence by some that homeopathic remedies healed them establishes some sort of factual basis for the pseudoscience of homeopathy.

Michael Shermer on the dangers of astrology.

You sound so benign. Yet your day job is debunking pseudo sciences like rain dances and astrology. There's no harm, then, in me thinking that because I'm a Libra I just might get what I wish for today?

[Laughs] No, for most people astrology is just light entertainment. But the problem with taking it seriously is it can lead to other irrational beliefs. And presumably in an educated democracy we want to have a certain level of education, as Jefferson says, so we can have a serious national discussion about problems. I mean, people who believe in astrology tend to believe all kinds of goofy things. All the pseudo sciences -- astrology, Tarot cards, psychics, mystic healing -- use the exact same principle. They work because we have a selective memory and a confirmation bias. We look forward to finding evidence for what we already believe and forget the rest. In an hour reading, a psychic will make 200 or 300 statements. If a person walks away with half a dozen things the psychic got right, he's ecstatic. It's like Skinner with the rats. You don't have to reinforce them every time. In fact, they'll press the bar even faster if you give them intermittent reinforcement. It's the same with slot machines. You just have to pay off every once in a while and it will keep us pulling the levers.

The joys of Life without God

 

[Crunchy Cat]

The response so far has been typical...mere insults, name calling, childish behaviour.

It was much more typical of you to produce a fantastic claim without a shred of evidence. Do you even realize you are a liar and that you are attempting to delude others? I would bet the farm that you *think* you value truth.

 

[(Q)]

When you study astrology and realize that many people have similar characteristics that share the same "sun sign", that is somewhat co-incidental.

One doesn't have to study astrology to understand that there are a limited amount of "sun signs" compared to the billions of individuals living on the planet. There are bound to be similarities.

But, you focus simply on "hits" and ignore the misses. As there are bound to be similarities, there are also bound to be non-similarities, a great many of them, in fact, which completely undermines any similarity comparisons.

When you can take the person out of the picture and then see the aspects and what they mean in relation to psychology in a chart, including yourself, you will understand that astrology has a scientific basis using established cycles.

You are wrong. Astrology charts have NO basis in science, whatsoever.

Of course, you are free to demonstrate exactly the scientific basis you refer. And since that question, and questions like it have never been answered before, please consider yourself the first.

I await, all a tingle.

Astrology to me is a science

Astrology is NOT a science.

In olden days astrology was used only for the royal families, mundane things such as war.

Astrology remains as useless as it did then.

I, myself, on a personal level learned to understand family and friends through astrology. That neither makes me gullible nor foolish for using the astrology as a tool for understanding.

Perhaps not, but it would certainly be gullible and foolish for anyone else to believe you.

 

[Sapphrina]

Perhaps not, but it would certainly be gullible and foolish for anyone else to believe you.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there are many people that say that I have helped them astrologically and are appreciative.
Bottomline is that if you haven't studied it then you have no proof that it isn't helpful.

 

[Sapphrina]

And just for the record, there is a scientific approach to astrology and it is done in a controlled way. That is research w/control charts and non-control charts.

 

[Sapphrina]

It doesn't matter if you believe that it is a science or not, if it works for people and they are helped then that is what counts.

 

[GhostofMaxwell.]

It doesn't matter if you believe that it is a science or not,

So why come on here claiming its provable to science?

if it works for people and they are helped then that is what counts.

Same can be said for mugging.

 

[Repo Man]

And just for the record, there is a scientific approach to astrology and it is done in a controlled way. That is research w/control charts and non-control charts.

You have no idea how ridiculous that statement is do you? That's no different from saying there is a scientific approach to alchemy.

 

[Sapphrina]

And why do you think that is a ridulous statement? There are real societies that do use a scientific approach in a controlled setting. Did you not know that?

 

[(Q)]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there are many people that say that I have helped them astrologically and are appreciative.

How the heck is one helped, "astrologically?" :shrug:

Gullible people are always appreciative when they get fleeced. It's 'cause they haven't realized they were fleeced. Something to do with gullibility, I think.

I wonder how many came back to thank you for predicting their futures?

Bottomline is that if you haven't studied it then you have no proof that it isn't helpful.

I hope you didn't use astrology to make that guess? Good thing I didn't pay ya' for it.

 

[(Q)]

It doesn't matter if you believe that it is a science or not, if it works for people and they are helped then that is what counts.

You can help people without having to feed them bullshit.

What about the people that DIDN'T feel they were helped?

 

[Repo Man]

And why do you think that is a ridulous statement? There are real societies that do use a scientific approach in a controlled setting. Did you not know that?

That these people call themselves scientists (or oxymoronically, scientific astrologers) is irrelevant. It is like having a scientific search for Noah's Ark. A scientific search for the garden of Eden.

 

[Sapphrina]

I don't charge at all for helping people and I now think that you could say how can someone not listen if they haven't paid me. They are appreciative for the time that I have taken to discuss their issues. If I haven't helped them, then I haven't hurt them one bit. But I will tell you this much, I am respected as a person first, just as I respect them.

 

[Sapphrina]

So what you are all saying is that you a sceptical of everything. You don't believe in ghosts, alien abductions, or Big Foot? You have no beliefs at all unless it has happened to you personally.