Nope. They proceed in the direction of greatest entropy. Nothing about fit.
Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Drop the "best fit", it's too obtuse.
I meant to say; "Path of least resistance", or "path of greatest satisfaction", better?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_of_least_resistance
Obviously the path of least resistance also implies a state of "greatest physical satisfaction."
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Not at all. Physical satisfaction has nothing to do with path of least resistance. In fact they are more opposites than anything else.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
He's brought up this concept of "satisfaction" before. So far as I can see it has no meaning. Perhaps I should add it to my list of "Bingo!" words.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
I guess that is still too obtuse. Don't take this form of satisfaction as a sentient emotional product. I used this metaphor in reference to; Principle of least effort (path of least resistance)
The principle of least effort is analogous to the path of least resistance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_effort
Which is analogous to; "movement in the direction of greatest physical satisfaction"......get it?
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Is it also analogous to "direction of greatest physical pain" and "direction of greatest physical evil?"
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No, it is not . I knew you would misinterpret this.
This synonym has nothing to do with sentient emotion, but with an abstract physical state of rest or equilibrium.
A pendulum in a state of equilibrium can be said to be in a state of greatest satisfaction.
A quantum event can be said to collapses from superposition into a state of greatest satisfaction.
Inertia can be said to be in a state of greatest satisfaction.
Why is acceleration zero at the mean position on a simple pendulum?
"This equation satisfies the required definition"........W4U
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
"direction of greatest satisfaction" is an archaic term - from a oldey-timey time when philosophers observed what nature did, but not yet understand how.
Now, it's deprecated, in favour of the well-defined and quantifiable forces we know now.
The only way to quantify a system is to throw away the useless term altogether and examine the system with well-defined parameters, such as, for example, potential energy.
What units is "greatest satisfaction" measured in? Ah right. It's "abstract" - in other words it can be applied anyway one wants - a tool of the ignorant and the manipulative.
Write4U: Where would you like this thread moved to? History or PseudoScience?
Now, it's deprecated, in favour of the well-defined and quantifiable forces we know now.
The only way to quantify a system is to throw away the useless term altogether and examine the system with well-defined parameters, such as, for example, potential energy.
Yep. A poorly-defined, qualitative term from the past. Since you've used it in three different examples, you can see how the term harkens back to the state of not knowing the difference between those three examples. Any current attempts at its use are attempts to make one's arguments dumber.
What units is "greatest satisfaction" measured in? Ah right. It's "abstract" - in other words it can be applied anyway one wants - a tool of the ignorant and the manipulative.
Write4U: Where would you like this thread moved to? History or PseudoScience?
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As does evil. For example:
"When the ice finished melting, the container had reached the state of maximum evil."
"His evil plans came to a messy and disorganized end, as evil plans always do."
Same-same.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
You're still resisting the abstract meaning of satisfaction.
It's not really complicated.
Satisfaction ; 2a: fulfillment of a need or want
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satisfaction
This definition satisfies the requirements of the statement.
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Huh? Of course they do. Their functions need to "satisfy" (follow) the mathematics of their values and functions in relation to the environment. All physical actions rest on satisfying the mathematical imperatives of that action.
An equation is an expression of mathematical satisfaction.
mathematics
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/satisfy
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
No they don't.
Only living things have needs or wants.
Physical things have properties, and are subject to forces.
As is plainly obvious even to you, the suggestion that inanimate objects have "needs" or "wants" pollutes any explanation of nature with anthropomorphic mumbo jumbo.
This is a textbook example of PseudoScience: the insertion of scientifically poorly-defined weasel words* peppered in science-ish declarations that obfuscate, rather than clarify scientific concepts, in an author's attempt to write their own narrative.
*weasel word: a word that is applied with different meaning as required, depending on context, but used as if they are the same thing, in a attempt to draw a connection that isn't there. Example: an inanimate object having "needs".
Reporting to have thread moved to PseudoScience. You'll be happier with it there, where it won't be so badly eviscerated.
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I'm not even sure it is an archaic term. Have you ever seen it used in physics, even historically?
Write4U gives the impression he is quoting a source, with his passage in italics, but does not give the source.
My guess is either there is no source, and he has made this up, or he is quoting from a non-scientific source of some kind - perhaps a crank.
The (slightly less meaningless) notion of least effort does seem to exist. However that is generally applied to systems and problems involving people or animals, which naturally prefer to minimise the effort needed to reach a goal. In trying to extend this idea to inanimate systems, he immediately introduces a bogus air of teleology. This probably appeals to him for religious reasons, viz. his belief in mathematics as a sort of intelligence driving the universe in a purposeful way.
P.S. There is of course the famous principle of least action, in which action is a respectable physical quantity (energy x time), but that is a very different and technical thing, relating to the variational approach to mechanics.
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Yeah, the fact that Write4U didn't source it had not escaped me. I've heard the term, but not in any marginally credible science-y context.
But if it's not even sourced in some pseudoscience somewhere, then this thread may not even meet the criteria for the PseudoScience forum; it my have to go straight to Free Thoughts, where it can happily prance in open grassy fields, with no danger of stepping into any science-y gopher holes, breaking its leg and having to be shot to put it out of its misery.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Your term, you source it from a dictionary. We'll wait.
No one here is obliged to give you free credit for pseudoscience.
Indeed. You are one of the culprits responsible.
We are here to undo your nonscience, lest the world get any dumber.
Also: "its", not "it's", since you are ruing about the state of the English language.
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No, I'm not. I am using an alternative definition. If words can indeed mean anything, mine are better than yours.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
I'll repeat the link:
satisfy
Also found in: Thesaurus, Legal, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
sat·is·fy , (săt′ĭs-fī′)
v. sat·is·fied, sat·is·fy·ing, sat·is·fies
v.tr.
4. To meet or be sufficient for (a requirement); conform to the requirements of (a standard, for example): Only two people satisfied the researcher's profile for the study.
6. Mathematics To make the left and right sides of (an equation) equal after substituting equivalent quantities for the unknown variables.
v.intr.
1. To be sufficient or adequate.
2. To give satisfaction.
[Middle English satisfien, from Old French satisfier, from Latin satisfacere : satis, sufficient; see sā- in Indo-European roots + facere, to make; see dhē- in Indo-European roots.]
sat′is·fi′er n.
sat′is·fy′ing·ly adv.
Synonyms: satisfy, answer, fill, fulfill, meet1
These verbs mean to be sufficient or to act in adequate measure for something expected or required: satisfied all requirements; answered our needs; fills a purpose; fulfilled their aspirations; met her obligations.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
satisfy
(ˈsætɪsˌfaɪ)
vb (mainly tr) , -fies, -fying or -fied
8. (Mathematics) maths logic to fulfil the conditions of (a theorem, assumption, etc); to yield a truth by substitution of the given value: x = 3 satisfies x2 – 4x + 3 = 0.
[C15: from Old French satisfier, from Latin satisfacere, from satis enough + facere to make, do]
ˈCollins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014
sat•is•fy
(ˈsæt ɪsˌfaɪ)
v. -fied, -fy•ing. v.t.
1. to fulfill the desires, expectations, needs, or demands of; make content.
9. Math.
a. to fulfill the requirements or conditions of: to satisfy a theorem.
b. (of a value of an unknown) to change (an equation) into an identity when substituted for the unknown: x = 2 satisfies 3x = 6.
v.i.
10. to give satisfaction.
[1400–50; < Middle French satisfier < Latin satisfacere (see satisfaction)]
sat′is•fi`a•ble, adj.
sat′is•fi`er, n.
sat′is•fy`ing•ly, adv.
sat′is•fy`ing•ness, n.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
ImperativePresentPreteritePresent ContinuousPresent PerfectPast ContinuousPast PerfectFutureFuture PerfectFuture ContinuousPresent Perfect ContinuousFuture Perfect ContinuousPast Perfect ContinuousConditionalPast Conditional
Collins English Verb Tables © HarperCollins Publishers 2011
ThesaurusAntonymsRelated WordsSynonymsLegend:
Switch to new thesaurus
3. comply with, meet, fulfil, answer, serve, fill, observe, obey, conform to, measure up to, match up to The procedures should satisfy certain basic requirements.
comply with fail to meet
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
satisfy
verb
1. To be satisfactory to: fill the requirements
5. To supply fully or completely:
answer, fill, fulfill, meet.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/satisfy
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No you are using the word only in context of human needs and wants. An emotional fulfillment. Very limited.
The ice-cream satisfied his cravings for something sweet. Your linkage to "pain" and "evil" shows clearly at what level you are familiar with the term, although I am sure you have used the term satisfies in context of a scientific function. You just never gave it any thought.
I am from Holland, I consult the dictionary all the time.
If you are going to cherry-pick make sure you consult the dictionary or else you are arguing against defined English language.
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