The necessary truth of mathematics (?)

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Are you trying to get yourself banned again? Lose the microtubules. We've done them.
You have done nothing on them! I have done it all!
W4U: @ Pinball1970,
Considering that you are a biologist, I am confident that when you examine the state of science in regard to microtubule functions, you will be enchanted by the evolutionary history and adaptability of tubulin structures for naturally selected purposes of electrochemical information transmission.
James R:
Stop evangelising, please. Nobody here is interested in your religion any more.
Oh, and you make that decision for everyone else here?
Where are all these cut and pastes from? All those numbers, like 1234. Are they footnotes in some article you've plagiarised? Or are you getting MS Copilot to write your posts for you, again
No I am trying to introduce a whole new branch of science to this forum. It is you who wants to remain ignorant of NEW science..
As to your accusation that I commit plagiarism, don't you commit plagiarism every time you cite or quote ANY prior established science?
AFAIK, it requires claim of authorship to rate the accusation of plagiarism. You are applying prejudicial standards.
That is not moderation, that is censorship.

Plagiarism is using someone else’s words or ideas without proper attribution. The most common types of plagiarism are:
https://www.scribbr.com/plagiarism/types-of-plagiarism/
1) Presenting an entire text by someone else as your own work.
2) Rephrasing someone else’s ideas without citation.
3) Directly copying a passage of text without citation.
4) Combining text and ideas from different sources without citation.
5) Plagiarism is considered an act of fraud and involves both stealing someone else's work and lying about it afterward. The expression of original ideas is considered intellectual property and is protected by copyright laws, just like original inventions.


The numbers you are so curious about are the references to the various sources and authors. I commit NO plagiarism.
It is you who is committing prejudicial censorship without any knowledge of the subject. You are remaining willfully ignorant.


Me: "Your honor, I present overwhelming evidence of fact in this case"
Judge: "You have presented too much evidence of fact. Therefore I am closing this case and declare it dead."

I dare say that at this stage I know more about microtubules than you do and I am telling you that you are resisting peer reviewed science.
Your disinterest doesn't bother me in the least. I don't post for your pleasure. I post for general distribution and discussion.
Let me remind you that my posts usually draw spirited debate because the content is controversial and merits closer examination.

I can understand the need for separate threads lest the the OP becomes unwieldy, but I have never heard anyone say Gravity is dead because it has been discussed to much, too frequently in a single thread.
Instead we engage in endless debates about semantics instead of content. Booooringgggg!!!

I am distributing scientific NEWS about conditions at previously unaccessible levels of observation. This forumm and specifically this sub-forum is not dedicated to a particular school of thought that excludes all other science. Therefore your dictates on this subject is wholly unwarranted and prejudicial.

You have already relegated nano-scale science to "pseudo-science", an insult to the hundreds (if not thousands) of hard-working scientist who are trying to solve one of the most important properties and potentials of Eukaryotic life on earth.
https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism

 
Microtubules are dead. Let them rest in peace.
You've got to be kidding...!!! And you claim to be a scientist? Sounds more like it is you who is into demonology and exorcism.

Bye, bye, I'm going back on vacation from this tedium. Do some more digging on what might be the greatest discovery ever.
 
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Write4U:
You have done nothing on them! I have done it all!
What have you done? You have cut and paste a bunch of random snippets from articles whose content you mostly don't understand. You have, in addition, made a whole bunch of lofty claims, none of which you have managed to support with evidence or any kind of coherent argument.

But at this point in time, the real problem is the endless boring useless repetition of the same talking points, over and over, ad nauseam. You're a one-track broken record, Write4U, apparently incapable of doing anything except regurgitating the same two or three ideas over and over, never making any progress and never learning anything new.

I'm sorry to see that this is what you've become over the past few years.

Oh, and you make that decision for everyone else here?
Everyone else here who engages with you has told you, themselves.

But, in case you forgot, I am an Administrator here. That means that, yes, I do get to make decisions about the kind of content we want to platform here. Haven't you noticed? Maybe try reading some threads other than the ones you start. Take an interest in what else happens on this forum. Your single-minded focus on spinning that random wheel and selecting one of the only three topics listed on it has led to an unhealthy fixation.
Did you just find this out?

The numbers you are so curious about are the references to the various sources and authors.
Which you do not cite. More problematically, you do not always identify the original source you cut and pasted, either. Plagiarism, like you found out, is trying to pass off somebody else's words as if they are your own. You need to take more care to avoid doing that.
It is you who is committing prejudicial censorship without any knowledge of the subject. You are remaining willfully ignorant.
You forgot your 3000+ post thread on the topic of microtubules again.

Are you telling me that, in that thread with more than 3000+ posts, you didn't provide me with any knowledge of one of your three favorite subjects?

Your goal in starting that thread, which no doubt you have forgotten, was to try to show that microtubules are the seat of consciousness. You utterly failed to do that, in a conversation containing 3000+ posts. You made the claim repeatedly, but you could never put together a coherent brief of evidence in support of your claim. You still can't. Personally, I don't think anybody can prove your claim, as things currently stand. There are lots of speculations and lots of claims out there, but no smoking gun evidence.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Penrose and Hammeroff are way more qualified to talk about this subject than you are, but they've both failed to deliver the goods on the microtubules, too.

I dare say that at this stage I know more about microtubules than you do and I am telling you that you are resisting peer reviewed science.
Don't be silly, Write4U. After years of discussion, you still don't know what a mathematical function is, what a differential equation is, how to use the word "quantum" correctly, or what any of that complicated biochemistry stuff you cut and paste actually means.

Your idea of knowledge of a topic amounts to knowing how to ask google or Copilot to dig up pages with the term "microtubule" in them. At best, you have a superficial memory of some buzz words, although you don't know what most of them mean.

Your behaviour is a bit like that of a person who claims to know all about ballet dancing because he has watched a few ballets on TV and he managed to google a list of ballet terms from wikipedia ("pas de deux", "jette" etc.) But he has never had a single dance lesson, never stood on a stage let alone danced on one, has rarely, if ever, had a discussion with a professional ballerina and, if he has, he actually understood about one in every three words that was said about ballet.

Your disinterest doesn't bother me in the least. I don't post for your pleasure.
It's for sheer bloody-mindedness, at this point, isn't it?
I post for general distribution and discussion.
Ah yes. Distribution. Unfiltered distribution. Like endless junk mail.
Let me remind you that my posts usually draw spirited debate because the content is controversial and merits closer examination.
Mostly, your posts attract people who, with good intentions, are trying to help you by (a) correcting your many errors and/or (b) teaching you some science. But nothing sticks with you. You apparently can't remember what you posted yesterday, let alone something that somebody told you three days ago. These days, you're even struggling to maintain a coherent line of thought even in the course of a single post. By the time you get to the end of a post, you've forgotten where you started. At least, that's what it looks like to me.
I can understand the need for separate threads lest the the OP becomes unwieldy, but I have never heard anyone say Gravity is dead because it has been discussed to much, too frequently in a single thread.
In our posting guidelines, it says that we reserve the right to reject contributions on topics that have already been widely canvassed in previous discussions.

Discussions about gravity that go around in useless circles have been closed in the past, just like your microtubule thread was closed. Probably you forgot again, or weren't paying attention in the first place.
Instead we engage in endless debates about semantics instead of content. Booooringgggg!!!
When you use words incorrectly, the discussion almost inevitably becomes about semantics. What else would you expect?

Yes, I know. It's a real drag to be expected to use scientific terms correctly, and all that. It's much more fun and it requires much less effort when you just make up your own meanings as you go. Much less boring.

But, you chose to try to talk about science on a science forum. Probably a bad choice of forum for you. A free-form stream-of-consciousness blog would probably suit you better. Certainly, it would be much less restrictive on your creativity. Nobody would read it, though. There's the rub. You thrive on feedback, don't you? Any response to your nonsense give you that dopamine rush - even when the response is overwhelmingly critical of what your wrote. So, in the end, the content becomes irrelevant. All that you need is for people to keep responding.

You're not fooling me when you claim that this endless repetition bores you. It is your life blood. You thrive on it.
I am distributing scientific NEWS about conditions at previously unaccessible levels of observation.
Everything you post is in service to your two or three core religious beliefs, which at this point go something like this:
1. Abstract mathematics somehow cause changes in physical systems.
2. Microtubules somehow explain consciousness.
3. Bohm, Tegmark and Hammeroff should be recognised as the gods they are. All Glory to the Church of the Implicate Order!
This forumm and specifically this sub-forum is not dedicated to a particular school of thought that excludes all other science.
The particular subforum in which this thread is currently housed is dedicated to "General Philosophy". However, you haven't actually discussed the thread topic for some time now. There's no philosophy here, other than the regular repeat of Bohmian or Tegmarkian mysticism - both of which are more akin to religion.

As far as sciforums as a whole goes, you really ought to read the introductory paragraphs in our Site Posting Guidelines. Have you ever read them? If so, have you forgotten them? They talk about the aims and philosophy of the site as a whole, in succinct terms.
You have already relegated nano-scale science to "pseudo-science"...
Telling lies is unhelpful, Write4U. You should stop that nonsense.

I have at no time referred to "nano-scale science" as pseudoscience. The hint is right there in the label.

Your pseudo-religious nonsense is not nano-scale science.
 
You've got to be kidding...!!!
Pay attention to context, Write4U. "Microtubules are dead" was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek statement that referred specifically to your endlessly repeated circular stream of uselessness in discussions on that topic in this forum. Your microtubules thread was closed; ergo microtubules are dead. Get it?

There's nothing more any of us here can hope to usefully learn from you about microtubules.

This says nothing about real scientific research into microtubules, though my impression is that there isn't much of that going on, in the grand scheme of things. It seems like a niche interest among a few non-evangelical microbiologists. Meanwhile, the chief proponents of the pseudo-religion of microtubular consciousness aren't really doing any scientific research on them, as far as I'm aware. Instead, they are evangelising the same 40 year old ideas that failed to gain any traction among the relevant experts when they were initially proposed.
And you claim to be a scientist?
I can't recall whether I have claimed to be a scientist, on this forum. Would it make any difference to you if you were to find out that I am a scientist? There are no signs that it would make any difference at all, as far as I can see. You've already chosen your Holy Trinity of scientists to worship. You won't want to add a new god to your pantheon.

Sounds more like it is you who is into demonology and exorcism.
A characteristically bizarre non sequitur from you.

But your aim with this particular post is just to try to insult me. Isn't that right? Mission accomplished, then?
Bye, bye, I'm going back on vacation from this tedium.
Okay. Bye again, Write4U.

You'll be back, though, won't you?
Do some more digging on what might be the greatest discovery ever.
Religious ecstasy? Tick. You're in a cult, Write4U.
 
Religious ecstasy? Tick. You're in a cult, Write4U.
No, it is you who is the one steeped in mystery. Accepting the advise: "shut up and calculate" is no different than "pray and hope for the best", a favorite past-time of religious cultist people.

OTOH, I have a definition of consciousness that is based on sound science. You see, my philosophy is based on the simple evolutionary processes that produced Abiogenesis as an extension of self-organizing elemental and molecular complexity, Animation as an extension of self-organizing Dynamism, and self-referential Cognition (empathy) as an extension of self-organizing Wave Synchrony.
Check out the numbers referencing the quoted sources.
and
Rhythms of Nature: Understanding Synchrony in Oscillatory Systems
Date, July 24, 2024
“The beauty of mathematics is that it is an abstract language that allows you to talk about systems in many walks of life,” Bullo said.
more ............
However, transistors can get only so small and densely packed before they hit hard physical limits to their performance, signaling the nearing end of this era.
As a result, the field of computing has started to consider many new types of computers using different building blocks.
That limitation has been lifted!
“One such approach is the nature-inspired computer with interacting building blocks, whose natural evolution — synchronized or not synchronized — can be guided to solve hard computational problems,” Çamsari said. “This is very different from building digital computers with deterministic and precise algorithms.” There are many parallels to quantum computing, he added, which also lets nature do the problem solving.

Watch this remarkable video that explains these 3 evolving phenomenon in simple terms wih examples, including quorum sensing.
 
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Write4U:

Oh, you're back. That was a very short vacation from the forum. You managed to clock up a total of 12 hours away before you felt compelled to post here again.
No, it is you who is the one steeped in mystery. Accepting the advise: "shut up and calculate" is no different than "pray and hope for the best", a favorite past-time of religious cultist people.
Another bizarre non sequitur. I suppose that asking you to explain your reasoning would be too much to ask. It's sort of like you had something I said or did in mind, somewhere in the back of your head, but you haven't actually referred to anything I've written here.

OTOH, I have a definition of consciousness that is based on sound science.
What's your definition of consciousness? And what sound science is it based on? Please explain.
You see, my philosophy is based on the simple evolutionary processes that produced Abiogenesis as an extension of self-organizing elemental and molecular complexity, Animation as an extension of self-organizing Dynamism, and self-referential Cognition (empathy) as an extension of self-organizing Wave Synchrony.
Word salad. No sound science to be seen in any of that.

You're just making shit up as you go along, hoping that your buzz words will fool somebody.

Your religion is getting crazier by the day.
 
Write4U:

Oh, you're back. That was a very short vacation from the forum. You managed to clock up a total of 12 hours away before you felt compelled to post here again.

Another bizarre non sequitur. I suppose that asking you to explain your reasoning would be too much to ask. It's sort of like you had something I said or did in mind, somewhere in the back of your head, but you haven't actually referred to anything I've written here.


What's your definition of consciousness? And what sound science is it based on? Please explain.

Word salad. No sound science to be seen in any of that.

You're just making shit up as you go along, hoping that your buzz words will fool somebody.

Your religion is getting crazier by the day.
"Self-organising Wave Synchrony" is a new one. Almost in the same league as Deepak Chopra.

Maybe we should alert DaveC426913 that it could soon be time to update his Wobbly Wheel of Woo. :wink:
 
Almost in the same league as Deepak Chopra.
I knew that was coming. What makes you think I have any interest in Deepak Chopra, other than as by secondary association?
I have never mentioned Deepak Chopra, yet I am now branded as some spiritual nutcase who blindly follows every guru who spouts universal truths.

May I remind you that I tend to the mathematical and quantum computational perspectives of Tegmark and Penrose?

READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!

Who are your gurus? Einstein, Dirac?

Dirac, Einstein and physics​

02 Mar 2000
Antonino Zichichi argues that the discoveries made by Paul Dirac had a much bigger impact on the science of the 20th century than those of Albert Einstein.
Relative reputations
So why is Einstein held in such high regard? As far as the public is concerned, Einstein’s fame is based on two fascinating achievements: the principle of relativity and his deduction that light can be deflected by gravitational fields. Physicists, of course, are well aware of Einstein’s many other huge contributions to physics, but even they may not be fully aware of the role played by other scientists before him.
In fact, the first person to formulate the principle of relativity was Galilei (or Galileo, as he is known to English speakers). His formulation is so well written – “No matter which experiment you perform, it will be impossible to detect effects that depend on the velocity of a reference system provided that the velocity is constant” – that it does not exclude any force of nature, even those, such as electromagnetism, that Galilei knew nothing about. (Incidentally, the equations describing relativity were discovered before Einstein’s time by Hendrik Lorentz in his studies of electromagnetism.) Galilei was also probably convinced that the speed of light was finite. In fact, he tried to measure it, but failed because it is so fast.
However, Galilei succeeded in measuring the acceleration due to gravity – despite its high value – thanks to the invention of the pendulum and the discovery of the force of gravity using the inclined plane. Galilei’s measurements in turn enabled Newton to discover the law of gravitational interaction, which predicted, among other things, that a beam of light can be deflected by the force of gravity. (Indeed, Newton’s laws made predictions that were wrong by only a factor of two compared with Einstein’s calculations more than 200 years later.)
But how many people are aware of the contributions of Newton (in second place in the Physics World poll), Galilei (sixth) and Lorentz to these culturally fascinating discoveries of relativity and of the effects that mass has on space-time? I find it unfortunate that both of these discoveries tend to be fully attributed to Einstein. Here, however, I would like to praise the man who came eighth in the Physics World poll – Paul Dirac.
more..... https://physicsworld.com/a/dirac-einstein-and-physics/

I believe I have progressed a little further than "adoration". Give it a rest, please.
"Self-organising Wave Synchrony" is a new one
To you maybe.

To me as musician, it is very familiar.

PATTERNS

Scientists Discover Exotic New Patterns of Synchronization​

In a world seemingly filled with chaos, physicists have discovered new forms of synchronization and are learning how to predict and control them.


Where have you been?
 
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Mass and gravity are related.
Mass and temperature are not.
Дэйв, а температура и энергия не связаны, по вашему мнению? А как быть с тем, что при абсолютном нуле частицы становятся неподвижными, и вы можете точно измерить их положение и импульс, что противоречит принципу неопределённости Гейзенберга? Таким образом, абсолютный ноль считается недостижим. Наш друг ошибся, считая что он может получить статичность таким образом.
 
Here are te scientists I follow closely to see where they lead us in their knowlegeable quest for truth.

Question: How can a "conscious observation" be causal to an event that has already happened in th past. Before an event can be observed at all its wave function has to transverse the distance from "event point" to "point of observation" and that takes time. What we observe is history!

We do not project wave function observation in Space. We receive wave function observation in Time and that involves a change of state relative only to the observer whatever or wherever that observer may be. When you run into a brick wall, you've been observed! But that particularly terminal wave interference only fixes the particle's position in space from a subjective perspective.
Bohmian mechanics and I believe Penrose's Collapse of the wave function account for that distinction.

Wigner is objectively wrong.
The particle's trajectory is only in superposition relative to the POV of the observer. The particle itself is controlled by the prevailing mathematics of wave interference. The observer does not influence (collapse) the wave state of the particle at the emitting event point but at the receiving terminal point.

Superposition is only presented at the receiving coordinate, not at the origination coordinate. of the event.

1745535916677.png Clearly, there is no random action. The emerging pattern proves the non-randomness of the particles' positions within the variable wave function interferences, which become resolved only to the observer, but not because the observer places any superposition on the particle at event origin. Again, it is a subjective anthropomorphization, not an objectification of fact.
 
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And this is the audible result of harmonic wavefunction synchronicity we are exposed to from birth on.

If this does not stir your soul, you are missing something very basic.

and first presented at a psychology symposium wher it it impressed the pros.

 
Since this discussion obviously no longer has anything to do with "The necessary truth of mathematics", it is now closed.
 
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