It's also not my problem if you chose to remain gullible, open to illusions, and maintain confirmation bias.
My only position is to inform [or help to inform] those that happen to read your nonsense, of the actual facts and the science. :shrug:
What are poltergeists?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
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It's also not my problem if you chose to remain gullible, open to illusions, and maintain confirmation bias.
My only position is to inform [or help to inform] those that happen to read your nonsense, of the actual facts and the science. :shrug:
More accurately, people are frustrated that you continue to beat a dead horse with fallacious arguments and poor logic...
If you'd had any actual evidence, you would probably be one of the most widely renowned investigators of all time. Alas, you do not, and all you are is someone with an unsupported supposition.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
LOL! Which is your justification for insulting again. Got it!
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
No..they're just frustrated because I argue my points logically and also provide evidence for my claims. It's something they're not used to in this area. I understand...But that doesn't justify insulting me.
There is no evidence.
Just hearsay, confirmation bias and wishful thinking.
If it was real evidence then it would already be science fact and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you several times already.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Tip: repeating the same assertion over and over again isn't arguing your point. Try harder...
Frustrated only out of the off chance you may convince some other poor schnook of your delusions, you have never argued logically, rather just block your ears and carry on with more nonsense, and your continued claim re insults just confirms your paranoia.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Your personal insults are noted again: a poor schnook with delusional paranoia? You really want them to close this thread don't you?
How ironic.
I'm sure every other person in this thread could say the exact same thing to YOU.
You really do live in your own little world... where everyone else is wrong and you are right...
Uhm... I think you're Reading Comprehension is on the fritz again... he said:
Nowhere in that sentence did he call you a "poor schnook with delusional paranoia"... you are so incredibly DESPERATE to be the victim that you are seeing insults where there are none... I'm starting to think you just might suffer some sort of paranoia at this rate. It would explain why you seem determined to be the victim all the time...
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Yes he did. Saying convincing some OTHER poor schnook is saying I'm a poor schnook. Saying I have delusions is saying I'm delusional. And saying I have paranoia is saying I have paranoia. Hence I'm a poor schnook with delusional paranoia. And your own insult is also noted. Do you know how NOT to insult people? I can't believe you live in the real world and talk like that to anyone. Or do you just do it to me?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
...
Nope, I just call it like I see it - I don't sugarcoat or bullshit - if you can't handle the truth well, that just isn't my problem. If you act like a whiny Nancy, I'll call you on it. Act like a gullible fool, I'll call ya a gullible fool. I don't have time to mince words to protect a fragile ego.
And no, his statement referred exclusively to other people, ergo, not you. You can keep believing whatever you wish though; after all, you have to keep you little "woe is me everybody is so mean to me" act going, and if you have to be dishonest to do so, you've shown you have no qualms with that.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
IOW , you can't stop insulting people, and even take pride in it. Wow.. Then don't waste my time anymore. You're not going to shut down this thread too with your non-stop off-topic flaming of the kind of person you think I am.
Why do you think people keep trying to make you see sense and realise that ghosts have no actual verifiable evidence to prove that they're anything more than just stories?
It's not because science is "scared" or any such rubbish, it's because there is no evidence to prove their existence!
All of your adamant foot-stomping won't change that.
It's not because science is "scared" or any such rubbish, it's because there is no evidence to prove their existence!
All of your adamant foot-stomping won't change that.
Shut down the thread? Honestly, there's no thread TO shut down. you treat this place like your own personal blog, refuse to listen or accept basic facts, and then throw a hissy fit when people get frustrated at you saying the same cocked up bullshit over and over despite gobs of evidence showing just how hopelessly wrong you are...
Go to Facebook if you are looking for blind acceptance and likes, cause that isn't how the scientific community works.
PS - given that this has become another exercise in you ignoring facts and basically soapboxing, rather than a discussion about any worthwhile topic,i think it's safe to shut this travesty down
Bells
Staff member
Pro tip..
Saying "because I say so" and then linking to sites that say "because I say so" does not amount to you providing evidence for your claims.
Now, time for some actual science...
Paranormal Experiences in the General Population.
ROSS, COLIN A. M.D.; JOSHI, SHAUN
The Dissociative Disorders Interview Schedule was administered to a random sample of 502 adults in the general population of Winnipeg, a midwestern Canadian city. Results showed that paranormal/extrasensory experiences were common in the general population. They were linked to a history of childhood trauma and to other dissociative symptom clusters. A factor analysis of the paranormal experiences identified three factors which together accounted for 44.0% of the combined variance of the scores. A model is proposed in which paranormal experiences are conceptualized as an aspect of normal dissociation. Like dissociation in general, paranormal experiences can be triggered by trauma, especially childhood physical or sexual abuse. Such experiences discriminate individuals with childhood trauma histories from those without at high levels of significance.
ROSS, COLIN A. M.D.; JOSHI, SHAUN
The Dissociative Disorders Interview Schedule was administered to a random sample of 502 adults in the general population of Winnipeg, a midwestern Canadian city. Results showed that paranormal/extrasensory experiences were common in the general population. They were linked to a history of childhood trauma and to other dissociative symptom clusters. A factor analysis of the paranormal experiences identified three factors which together accounted for 44.0% of the combined variance of the scores. A model is proposed in which paranormal experiences are conceptualized as an aspect of normal dissociation. Like dissociation in general, paranormal experiences can be triggered by trauma, especially childhood physical or sexual abuse. Such experiences discriminate individuals with childhood trauma histories from those without at high levels of significance.
Delusions of the Paranormal: A Haunting Question of Perception
LANGE, RENSE Ph.D.1; HOURAN, JAMES M.A.
The hypothesis that paranormal (poltergeist) experiences are delusions resulting from the affective and cognitive dynamics of percipients' interpretation of ambiguous stimuli was tested in two studies using a structural modeling approach. Consistent with attribution theory, study I indicated that such delusions are best modeled by a closed negative-feedback loop involving belief, experience, and fear as process variables. Using a more homogeneous sample of percipients, study II replicated this model and the relations among the process variables reached statistical significance. The findings extend established attributional models of delusions by incorporating psychosocial and cognitive factors, including age, gender, and tolerance of ambiguity. The model is proposed as a general framework for the understanding and study of delusions and contagious psychogenic illness, in particular.
"El Duende" and Other Incubi
Suggestive Interactions Between Culture, the Devil, and the Brain
Carlos A. León, MD, MS
The belief in persecution or possession by evil spirits is still popular in Latin American countries. Observations were made on 12 Colombian families who were haunted by "el duende" (a special kind of imp, goblin, or poltergeist) and other spirits. Interviews elicited a detailed account of events, a demographic and socioeconomic description of the families, exploration of the pscyhosocial antecedents, and a psychiatric evaluation of individual members of the group regarded as key persons.
Possible psychodynamic mechanisms are involved in the production of the phenomenon and factors in the successful "therapeutic" interventions of spiritualist rather than psychiatric or religious healers. The interaction of culture, folk belief, and the brain impaired by lesion or faulty learning appears as the important accountable dimension.
Haunted by somatic tendencies: Spirit infestation as psychogenic illness
James Houran, V. K. Kumar, Michael A. Thalbourne & Nicole E. Lavertue
pages 119-133
It has been suggested that haunting and poltergeist episodes are akin to outbreaks of contagious psychogenic illness. Therefore, it might be expected that hypochondriacal and somatic tendencies would significantly predict self-reported experiences of 'spirit infestation' and other paranormal ideations. This prediction was tested on a sample of 314 undergraduate students who completed the Anomalous Experiences Inventory, the Transliminality Scale and three standard questionnaires about hypochondriasis, somatic complaints, and cognitions about body and health. Results from correlational and regression analyses supported predictions, although we found that the type of bodily cognition varied with the specificity of the paranormal experience. For example, indices of spirit infestation coincided with autonomic sensations, perceived paranormal ability was related to catastrophizing cognitions, and general paranormal experiences correlated with somatization traits. Transliminality and paranormal belief contributed positively to nearly all of these associations. These findings are consistent with the idea that some paranormal experiences are partly misattributions of internal experience to external (paranormal) sources - a process that could initiate an episode of contagious (mass) psychogenic illness by encouraging the collective perception of similar 'symptoms' in a group of people due to suggestion and demand characteristics.
Dissociative Trance Disorder: Clinical and Rorschach Findings in Ten Persons Reporting Demon Possession and Treated by Exorcism
Stefano Ferracuti & Roberto Sacco
pages 525-539
Although dissociative trance disorders, especially possession disorder, are probably more common than is usually thought, precise clinical data are lacking. Ten persons undergoing exorcisms for devil trance possession state were studied with the Dissociative Disorders Diagnostic Schedule and the Rorschach test. These persons had many traits in common with dissociative identity disorder patients. They were overwhelmed by paranormal experiences. Despite claiming possession by a demon, most of them managed to maintain normal social functioning. Rorschach findings showed that these persons had a complex personality organization: Some of them displayed a tendency to oversimplify stimulus perception whereas others seemed more committed to psychological complexity. Most had severe impairment of reality testing, and 6 of the participants had an extratensive coping stile. In this group of persons reporting demon possession, dissociative trance disorder seems to be a distinct clinical manifestation of a dissociative continuum, sharing some features with dissociative identity disorder.
LANGE, RENSE Ph.D.1; HOURAN, JAMES M.A.
The hypothesis that paranormal (poltergeist) experiences are delusions resulting from the affective and cognitive dynamics of percipients' interpretation of ambiguous stimuli was tested in two studies using a structural modeling approach. Consistent with attribution theory, study I indicated that such delusions are best modeled by a closed negative-feedback loop involving belief, experience, and fear as process variables. Using a more homogeneous sample of percipients, study II replicated this model and the relations among the process variables reached statistical significance. The findings extend established attributional models of delusions by incorporating psychosocial and cognitive factors, including age, gender, and tolerance of ambiguity. The model is proposed as a general framework for the understanding and study of delusions and contagious psychogenic illness, in particular.
"El Duende" and Other Incubi
Suggestive Interactions Between Culture, the Devil, and the Brain
Carlos A. León, MD, MS
The belief in persecution or possession by evil spirits is still popular in Latin American countries. Observations were made on 12 Colombian families who were haunted by "el duende" (a special kind of imp, goblin, or poltergeist) and other spirits. Interviews elicited a detailed account of events, a demographic and socioeconomic description of the families, exploration of the pscyhosocial antecedents, and a psychiatric evaluation of individual members of the group regarded as key persons.
Possible psychodynamic mechanisms are involved in the production of the phenomenon and factors in the successful "therapeutic" interventions of spiritualist rather than psychiatric or religious healers. The interaction of culture, folk belief, and the brain impaired by lesion or faulty learning appears as the important accountable dimension.
Haunted by somatic tendencies: Spirit infestation as psychogenic illness
James Houran, V. K. Kumar, Michael A. Thalbourne & Nicole E. Lavertue
pages 119-133
It has been suggested that haunting and poltergeist episodes are akin to outbreaks of contagious psychogenic illness. Therefore, it might be expected that hypochondriacal and somatic tendencies would significantly predict self-reported experiences of 'spirit infestation' and other paranormal ideations. This prediction was tested on a sample of 314 undergraduate students who completed the Anomalous Experiences Inventory, the Transliminality Scale and three standard questionnaires about hypochondriasis, somatic complaints, and cognitions about body and health. Results from correlational and regression analyses supported predictions, although we found that the type of bodily cognition varied with the specificity of the paranormal experience. For example, indices of spirit infestation coincided with autonomic sensations, perceived paranormal ability was related to catastrophizing cognitions, and general paranormal experiences correlated with somatization traits. Transliminality and paranormal belief contributed positively to nearly all of these associations. These findings are consistent with the idea that some paranormal experiences are partly misattributions of internal experience to external (paranormal) sources - a process that could initiate an episode of contagious (mass) psychogenic illness by encouraging the collective perception of similar 'symptoms' in a group of people due to suggestion and demand characteristics.
Dissociative Trance Disorder: Clinical and Rorschach Findings in Ten Persons Reporting Demon Possession and Treated by Exorcism
Stefano Ferracuti & Roberto Sacco
pages 525-539
Although dissociative trance disorders, especially possession disorder, are probably more common than is usually thought, precise clinical data are lacking. Ten persons undergoing exorcisms for devil trance possession state were studied with the Dissociative Disorders Diagnostic Schedule and the Rorschach test. These persons had many traits in common with dissociative identity disorder patients. They were overwhelmed by paranormal experiences. Despite claiming possession by a demon, most of them managed to maintain normal social functioning. Rorschach findings showed that these persons had a complex personality organization: Some of them displayed a tendency to oversimplify stimulus perception whereas others seemed more committed to psychological complexity. Most had severe impairment of reality testing, and 6 of the participants had an extratensive coping stile. In this group of persons reporting demon possession, dissociative trance disorder seems to be a distinct clinical manifestation of a dissociative continuum, sharing some features with dissociative identity disorder.
This is why immediately believing people who claim they are being haunted by poltergeists and others suddenly seeing and experiencing what they are experiencing should always be taken with a large grain of salt.
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