Write4U's stream of consciousness

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Write4U said:
And what does the biological processing of the algorithms? AFAIK, it is the microtubules and synapses in the cytoplasm and cytoskeleton that do the data processing and by extension follow the algorithms as described in the article. If not, what then?

Saying "no", without offering an alternate solution is not very useful, to me anyway.
And I doubt to anyone else.
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Genes control the cell essentially
 
I believe this may vindicate my original perspective on microtubules as an item interest

Eureka!!!!

Also watch the following video with Penrose for additional hurdles that need to be overcome.
 
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This imported from : see below
↑ tonylang;
Consider that devices such as radio, TV, smartphones, etc. composed of inanimate atoms are engineered to instantiate certain degrees of freedom (electromagnetic spectrum) of the space such devices instantaneously occupy as information programming (sounds, sights, data, etc.) even as such devices perpetually transition with Earth, ECO2, Sun, and galaxy through space.
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Fractal antenna
A fractal antenna is an antenna that uses a fractal, self-similar design to maximize the effective length, or increase the perimeter (on inside sections or the outer structure), of material that can receive or transmit electromagnetic radiation within a given total surface area or volume.
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Such fractal antennas are also referred to as multilevel and space filling curves, but the key aspect lies in their repetition of a motif over two or more scale sizes,[3] or "iterations".
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For this reason, fractal antennas are very compact, multiband or wideband, and have useful applications in cellular telephone and microwave communications. A fractal antenna's response differs markedly from traditional antenna designs, in that it is capable of operating with good-to-excellent performance at many different frequencies simultaneously. Normally, standard antennas have to be "cut" for the frequency for which they are to be used—and thus the standard antennas only work well at that frequency.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fract...frequency_invariance,_and_Maxwell's_equations

Note that many plants that live via photosynthesis are also fractal in nature. Evolved EM antennas?
 
Write4U:

You're going to go off on a new tangent of nonsense, taking tonylang's nonsense as your inspiration, now? Really?

Where would you rank tonylang's science, based on what you have read, compared to the science in the publish papers of microtubules that you have read, say, or the science of Hammeroff or Tegmark. All comparable? About the same? tonylang only slightly more dubious than the others? What?
 
James R said:
Write4U:

You're going to go off on a new tangent of nonsense, taking tonylang's nonsense as your inspiration, now? Really?

Where would you rank tonylang's science, based on what you have read, compared to the science in the publish papers of microtubules that you have read, say, or the science of Hammeroff or Tegmark. All comparable? About the same? tony lang only slightly more dubious than the others? What?
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Wow, I moved the quoted portion to my thread. There is no pleasing you, is there?

Well, as to microtubules , my intuition about the role microtubules play has just been verified. You were wrong and I was right!
As to tony lang's hypothesis, I can follow him perfectly and he has already been in parallel with my thinking.
He goes into more detail, but that is not my concern. I try to look for "common denominators".

p.s. have you seen the latest Sabine Hossenfelder ?

Do you see any commonality with tony langs's hypoyhesis.. RM antenna and internal processing!
 
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And that leads us back to Bohmian Mechanics.

Nonlocality Gets a Boost – David Bohm Revisited
There is, however, an alternative view, pioneered by Louis de Broglie in 1927 and developed by David Bohm in 1952 which came to be known as Bohmian Mechanics or pilot-wave theory. It reconciles particles with our usual classical understanding. The catch: everything in the cosmos influences everything else. The universe is essentially non-local.
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exchemist said:
It does not. See the posts on the topic here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/philosophy-updates.166232/page-7
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This one?

Quantum fiber optics in the brain enhance processing, may protect against degenerative diseases​

Peer-Reviewed Publication
HOWARD UNIVERSITY
But a group of theoretical and experimental researchers has discovered a distinctly quantum effect in biology that survives these difficult conditions and may also present a way for the brain to protect itself from degenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s. The result, published in The Journal of Physical Chemistry and selected as an Editors’ Choice by Science magazine, is not only an important discovery for neuroscience, but also suggests new applications of techniques for quantum computing researchers, and represents a new way of thinking about the relationship between life and quantum mechanics.
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“I believe that our work is a quantum leap for quantum biology, taking us beyond photosynthesis and into other realms of exploration: investigating implications for quantum information processing, and discovering new therapeutic approaches for complex diseases,” said Philip Kurian, Ph.D., principal investigator and founding director of the Quantum Biology Laboratory at Howard University in Washington, DC. The study was supported by The Guy Foundation.
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https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1042789
 

Quantum relaxation processes in microtubule tryptophan system​

Abstract
The paper investigates the mechanism of quantum relaxation in a microtubule tryptophan chain on the basis of the Born–Markov formalism. The tryptophans are considered as a system of interacting electric dipoles. Each dipole is represented as a two-level pseudo-spin system. Decoherence and dissipation processes have been investigated. The tunneling effect impact on quantum relaxation time has been considered. Decoherence time in relation to the environment impact has been obtained. Decoherence time dependence on temperature has been determined.
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Introduction
The cytoskeleton makes up the basic structural framework of the cell. The cytoskeleton is a complex of long protein fibers: actin filaments, intermediate filaments and microtubules. Microtubules are hollow cylindrical tubes with the outer diameter of about 25 nm and the inner diameter of about 14 nm. They consist of tubulin molecules, each of which is a dimer formed by two tightly bound globular subunits. These subunits are related proteins named �- and �-tubulins Fig. 1.
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Microtubules form a system of filaments inside which various vesicles and other membrane-bound organelles can move; in doing so, they influence cell polarity, can regulate its shape and motility, and determine cell division plane orientation [1], [2]
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Nowadays, investigations of microtubules’ mechanical and biological properties are of great topicality. These investigations allow for a better understanding of their importance for biosystems functioning.
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more.....
 
Pinball1970 said:
I don't know, do you?

Since genes build proteins and Tubulin is a protein.
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Mitosis is called equational division because the chromosome number and the ploidy of the daughter cells are equal to that of the parent cell1234. Mitosis is the process of cell division wherein the chromosomes replicate and get equally distributed into two daughter cells13. The daughter cells are diploid, i.e., they have the same number of chromosomes as the parent cell14.
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Note how many mathematical functions are mentioned in this quote.


1715935109868.png

There are two ways cell division can happen in humans and most other animals, called mitosis and meiosis. When a cell divides by way of mitosis, it produces two clones of itself, each with the same number of chromosomes. When a cell divides by way of meiosis, it produces four cells, called gametes. Gametes are more commonly called sperm in males and eggs in females. Unlike in mitosis, the gametes produced by meiosis are not clones of the original cell, because each gamete has exactly half as many chromosomes as the original cell.
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While the process is physical, the results are products of "division and multiplication" and those are mathematical functions, no?
 
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exchemist said:
Yes that one. No suggestion of any “processing” by microtubules, whether quantum or otherwise, let alone anything to do with Orch OR or consciousness.
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I guess the term "fiber optics" escaped your notice. That term indicates microtubules. AFAIK, there are no known optical mechanism, other than via the MT in the optical tract.

The Synaptic Life of Microtubules​

Introduction​

Synaptic transmission and plasticity play crucial roles during development and neuronal circuit remodeling, as well as in many neurodegenerative diseases. Although it is widely accepted that the neuronal cytoskeleton underlies the maintenance and plasticity of synaptic connections, most work has focused on the function and regulation of actin in dendritic spines. Remarkably, the localization of microtubules at synapses has only recently become widely accepted after decades of controversy, and the functional roles of synaptic microtubules have just begun to emerge.
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The Synaptic Life of Microtubules - PMC

In neurons, control of microtubule dynamics is required for multiple homeostatic and regulated activities. Over the past few decades, a great deal has been learned about the role of the microtubule cytoskeleton in axonal and dendritic transport, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

exchemist said:
This paper in concerned with quantum mechanical modelling of the arrays of tryptophan amino acids found in microtubules. So it is an exploration of the theoretical side of the collective QM behaviour that was reported in the study we were considering earlier.

That’s all it is.
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Well, that may be so in context of peer reviewed lab results, but this tells me that the main objection based on the warm, wet brain environment that makes quantum function "impossible", has been rendered moot. I believe the tests suggest quantum brain processes can happen and microtubules are potentially capable of these quantum processes. A BIG step!

To my knowledge there is no alternative model that contains sufficient networked numbers of processors to meet the requirement of an emergent non-computable (quantum) data processor, other than microtubule-synaptic networks.


p.s. Interesting that all Universal models, local or non-local, employ "abstract mathematics". It is one of my favorite "common denominators".
 
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Write4U said:
I guess the term "fiber optics" escaped your notice. That term indicates microtubules. AFAIK, there are no known optical mechanism, other than via the MT in the optical tract.

The Synaptic Life of Microtubules​

Introduction​


The Synaptic Life of Microtubules - PMC

In neurons, control of microtubule dynamics is required for multiple homeostatic and regulated activities. Over the past few decades, a great deal has been learned about the role of the microtubule cytoskeleton in axonal and dendritic transport, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


Well, that may be so in context of peer reviewed lab results, but this tells me that the main objection based on the warm, wet brain environment that makes quantum function "impossible", has been rendered moot. I believe the tests suggest quantum brain processes can happen and microtubules are potentially capable of these quantum processes. A BIG step!

To my knowledge there is no alternative model that contains sufficient networked numbers of processors to meet the requirement of an emergent non-computable (quantum) data processor, other than microtubule-synaptic networks.


p.s. Interesting that all Universal models, local or non-local, employ "abstract mathematics". It is one of my favorite "common denominators".
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No, the term fibre optics had not escaped my notice, and no evidence is put forward in the paper to show the presence of any such thing. If you read my comments from the other thread you will see I address this. Well, actually I suppose you may not, due to your lack of comprehension of scientific subjects, but someone able to follow what I say would see it.
 
Pinball1970 said:
It is not mathematical. I am talking about protein synthesis.
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I know and I am not arguing against the physics of the process. I am addressing the interaction of relational values of the physics that are the deterministic control and represent reality.

In physics, H and O are elements.
In mathematcs, H2O = the mathematical pattern and structure of water and its potential for different states, depending on the mathematics of temperature.

In order to understand physics, mathematics is essential for fashioning "ordered" models of real world dynamics.

Droplet
The term droplet is a diminutive form of 'drop' – and as a guide is typically used for liquid particles of less than 500 μm diameter. In spray application, droplets are usually described by their perceived size (i.e., diameter) whereas the dose (or number of infective particles in the case of biopesticides) is a function of their volume. This increases by a cubic function relative to diameter; thus, a 50 μm droplet represents a dose in 65 pl and a 500 μm drop represents a dose in 65 nanometers.
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en.wikipedia.org

Drop (liquid) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The internal mathematical values (potentials) of the droplet determine its physical behavior. Human numbers are just symbolic representations of interactive values and functions that are naturally assigned during the interactive event.
Physics is useless without mathematics, mathematics is an abstract concept without physics.
 
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exchemist said:
No, the term fibre optics had not escaped my notice, and no evidence is put forward in the paper to show the presence of any such thing. If you read my comments from the other thread you will see I address this. Well, actually I suppose you may not, due to your lack of comprehension of scientific subjects, but someone able to follow what I say would see it.
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No, but those fibers are explained here:

Microtubules: Evolving roles and critical cellular interactions​

New findings using the embryonic lens as a model demonstrate that microtubule isoforms are expressed abundantly in both epithelial and fiber cells68,104 unlike other cytoskeletal elements, in particular lens-specific intermediate filaments, that are greatly enriched in either epithelial or fiber cell compartments.104–108
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Instead, it is the post-translational modifications that are highly localized in the lens, with stable, acetylated microtubules concentrated in newly differentiated fiber cells and the apical aspects of lens equatorial epithelial cells.68 Disruption of dynamic microtubules does not impede normal fiber cell elongation and morphogenesis, but depolymerization of the stable acetylated microtubules results in opacities.68
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Microtubules: Evolving roles and critical cellular interactions - PMC

Microtubules are cytoskeletal elements known as drivers of directed cell migration, vesicle and organelle trafficking, and mitosis. In this review, we discuss new research in the lens that has shed light into further roles for stable microtubules in ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Write4U said:
No, but those fibers are explained here:

Microtubules: Evolving roles and critical cellular interactions​



Microtubules: Evolving roles and critical cellular interactions - PMC

Microtubules are cytoskeletal elements known as drivers of directed cell migration, vesicle and organelle trafficking, and mitosis. In this review, we discuss new research in the lens that has shed light into further roles for stable microtubules in ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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And bobcats are surprisingly good swimmers.https://www.nature.org/en-us/about-us/where-we-work/united-states/indiana/stories-in-indiana/indiana-bobcats/
 
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