ForrestDean
Registered Senior Member
Yeah I understand that. I didn't play the election game either. Although it was somewhat entertaining watching the different reactions last night between FOX News and CNN.
Great victory over political correctness and leftist propaganda
- Thread starter Ultron
- Start date
Yeah I understand that. I didn't play the election game either. Although it was somewhat entertaining watching the different reactions last night between FOX News and CNN.
It was. And one could see the biases in the projections/calls. I was disappointed by USA Today showing PA leaning Clinton early whereas CNN and FOX had it grey; too early/close to judge.
I suspect that right wingers will gloat for a few months before reality sits in. Then they will realize that for the next four years they will be making excuses for Trump. Trump doubles national spending? They are going to have to argue that government spending is good. Trump gropes a reporter? They are going to have to explain that that's OK. (Or, more likely, that she's a lying slut who doctored the video.) Trump supports Putin in his wars? They are going to have to explain how the commies are great allies to have.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
That's true. His speech last night, where he thanked his supporters, praised Hillary and promised to be President of all Americans, was very good though.
It's a huge political earthquake that historians and political-"scientists" will probably be talking about for generations. It probably has to be seen in conjunction with European events like the Brexit vote. It's another illustration of something that's widespread and growing throughout the Western world. (Next up: the French Presidential elections, I guess, or maybe the Netherlands. )
Here in the US, it's a result of how the political parties developed. The Democrats have always been the 'outsiders' party, a party defined in large part by alienation. They grouped together racial and ethnic minorities, political feminists, immigrants, Jews, dissatisfied intellectuals, gays, 19th century-style 'workers' as opposed to the 'bosses', and the poor welfare-state proletariat. It's why the Democratic elites in places like New York City, Washington DC or Los Angeles feel more at home in Paris than in Oklahoma City or Boise. Paris is felt to be less foreign, more filled with people like them. It's why they love open-borders, so as to fill the country with additional outsiders who will vote along with them. It's why they think of the American people in "flyover country" as crude and stupid people clutching "their religion and their guns", as Obama so memorably put it. It's why Americans are perceived as a "basket of deplorables", the "irredeemables" who damnably continue to identify with a national history and traditions that have already been dismissed by the opinion leaders as "racist", "imperialist", "capitalist" and evil.
Well, last night the American people, or a large segment of it, its white middle classes, said that they are tired of that stuff. They voted for a candidate who is an unabashed nationalist, a candidate who doesn't hesitate, even seemingly delights in saying things that people like them supposedly aren't supposed to say. Such as saying that foreigners who enter the US need to obey US immigration law. (Sentiments that supposedly are "racist" and "xenophobic".) Or that American trade policy should be negotiated in the interest of the American people, not the interests of transnational elites.
Middle income people who identify their ethnic background in the census as "American", are seemingly acquiring what the left used to call 'class consciousness' and are voting more as a bloc, just as blacks and Hispanics are universally expected to do. So in a way, the Trump victory is a victory for race-class-gender politics. It's just that in the Democrats' view the wrong race, class and gender was energized. Their votes are what won Trump Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania and probably Michigan too. Holding Romney's states and winning these new ones is what won Trump the election.
Yes, that's one of the most interesting aspects to this. Every day, every time they turned on TV, picked up a newspaper or a magazine, or turned on late-night TV, people were treated to non-stop insults and caricatures directed at Trump and his supporters. All the respectable polls announced that Trump had no chance and that Hillary was going to kick his ass. (The only question was how many down-ticket Republicans would lose.) Pundits were writing obituaries for the Republican party, crying crocodile tears over its loss, and telling its soon-to-be remnants what they needed to do to atone (move to the left).
So what happened? How could the media and other 'opinion leader' elites have gotten it so wrong? The parallels here with the Brexit vote are striking. The disconnect between poll results and what happens in the voting booth isn't just in the US.
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What about the people making true accusations?
Are you planning to call them "leftists" regardless of who they are, claim you are not racist when you obviously are, and gang up to fight them when they know what they are talking about and you don't?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I will NOT become more politically incorrect. I will not refer to women's "pussies" or their menstrual cycle or how "fat" they are. I will not call Hispanic Americans "Mexicans". I will not call illegal immigrants "rapists" and "murderers". I will not call African Americans "the blacks" or where they live "the ghettos". I will not call Muslims "terrorists". I will not say guys who wear yamikas make good accountants. I will not mock the disabled. I will not say that captured soldiers weren't heroes. I will not go backwards--EVER!
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Ultron
Registered Senior Member
I rarely report posts, but your post is a clear and hideous personal attack with completely unfounded accusation that Im racist. You have no arguments which would support the accusation that Im racist, but as I have written it is perfectly in line with standard leftist approach which is calling racist everybody who has different opinion.
Majority? 200 million registered voters. Trump and Clinton each got ~ 60 Million votes. Virtually a tie, with Clinton only slightly ahead.
This means for every 3 people that voted for Trump, there are 7 who did not.
Unlikely. Walesa had a coherent agenda, an ideology, and a reason for wielding power beyond self aggrandizement.
Trump is not going to have Walesa's problems, because he has nothing like Walesa's agenda.
The "motive" behind religious discrimination is beside the point. The illegality of it, the stupidity of it, and the consequences of it, are the central features of religious discrimination.
You appear to be confusing "newspapers" with "the media". Most Trump voters never read a newspaper, and most have no clear idea of who in fact the "establishment" is in the US. They believe - almost to the point of hypnotic trance, for decades now - the various corporate establishment backed media in which they have put their faith (the same sources you get your viewpoint from, btw).
The fact that the establishment involved suddenly realized they had lost control of their monster, and tried to leash it by reversing the lean of their pet media at the last minute, does not change the foundation of Trump's support. His entire campaign was establishment media driven, based on his establishment media backing and establishment media access and establishment media support and the establishment media created fascist faction that is his electoral base. That establishment bitterly opposed Clinton, has fought Clinton by fair means and foul since 1992. Twenty five years.
Ultron
Registered Senior Member
Maybe you should elaborate a little more on your logic and send some letter to Washington, that they should not make Trump president. Im sure they will reconsider
Your illiteracy is not my problem. I regret failing to dumb down my posts enough to prevent you from mistaking my hypothetical for an accusation, but if you wish I can make an actual accusation out of it, with evidence, and render your inability to follow ordinary discussion or stay on topic an irrelevancy. Is that your wish?
Ultron
Registered Senior Member
You mean that you as leftist make false accusation of people being racists so often, that I should not bother about it and stay on topic? I dont think so. I think is is excessive personal attack calling somebody a racist without any evidence showing that he is really racist and this is one one things I have pointed out what are people fed up. And no Im obviously not illiterate and you simply cant stop attacking people who have different opinion.
ForrestDean
Registered Senior Member
You know, Donald Trump should probably send Julian Assange a great big gift basket with a thank you card.
It was an essentially minor aftershock. This is the third such "quake" - the big one being Reagan, in 1980; first aftershock W in 2000.
The serious and revolutionary event, "Morning in America", was Reagan's election. Trump is an effect, not a cause - a vulgar Reaganite, not a revolutionary. His entire base, including his communication with it, was put together and organized and provided with everything from talking points to voter lists to theological justification, by the Republican Party and its corporate support over the past couple of decades.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Certainly, the people that were left out of the economic recovery, working class whites, found Trump's lack of filters refreshing. But if the jobs don't come back for them, all the blunt talk in the world won't help.
Is my math wrong?Maybe you should elaborate a little more on your logic and send some letter to Washington, that they should not make Trump president. Im sure they will reconsider
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/how-many-registered-voters-are-in-america-2016-229993
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...clinton-surpasses-trump-in-popular-vote-tally
Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
No. But feel free to defame your political enemies after losing this election, if that gives you some sort of relief.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
I think they are just hurting because they aren't part of the 21st century economy and Trump speaks their language. A charismatic liberal would have brought out the vote, and a prosperous economy would have depressed the working class vote. Demographics are against this voting block, this may be the last time they can win. Michael Moore got this one right.
That doesn't have anything to do with what you were responding to unless you are saying that exactly everyone who voted against him thinks he's racist and exactly everyone who voted for him thinks he's not.
But the point is a good one: it is practically official doctrine, the over-reach/strawman view that when someone cites Islamic terrorism it means they are racists who believe all Muslims are terrorists. Besides being insulting, it is actually a pretty stupid strawman.