The State Department’s entire senior administrative team just resigned

[Michael]

Typical .. the only way you can support Trump is by poisoning an out of office opposition.
Try supporting Trump instead. Justify his actions... go on ... a challenge just for you...
I would wager you can't and maintain any semblance of sanity...

What makes you think I support Trump? I support a very limited form of government. One that is relegated to pretty much defending private property rights and upholding contract. Both of which should be performed by the free-market whenever possible.

I don't need to poison Obama's legacy - he's a public servant. He serves me. That's the way this arrangement works. He is the servant. I am the Citizen. He does the serving. I get served. If I do not like his service, it's my right as a Citizen (which in this arrangement sits above the public servant) to complain. His job is say yes sir. That's how it works.

Anyway, O-blah-blah's record can stand for itself. As a public servant, he did play a lot of golf while sometimes being 'really good at killing people'.

 

[Quantum Quack]

What makes you think I support Trump? I support a very limited form of government. One that is relegated to pretty much defending private property rights and upholding contract. Both of which should be performed by the free-market whenever possible.

I don't need to poison Obama's legacy - he's a public servant. He serves me. That's the way this arrangement works. He is the servant. I am the Citizen. He does the serving. I get served. If I do not like his service, it's my right as a Citizen (which in this arrangement sits above the public servant) to complain. His job is say yes sir. That's how it works.

Anyway, O-blah-blah's record can stand for itself. As a public servant, he did play a lot of golf while sometimes being 'really good at killing people'.

so you can't justify your inability to discuss Trumps actions? Is that it?
and continue to dump on an "out of office ex president".

Obama is history Michael you gotta get with the times man....

 

[Michael]

I would not be in the least surprised if Trump ultimately calls for a state of emergency and calls for "Marshall law" due to the loss of so many incredibly valuable staff...and subsequent government dysfunction.

Well here we absolutely agree. That time isn't now. So no, no Marshall Law under Trump. Also, you seem to think Americans will be put under "Marshall Law". That's not how it works. Americans will DEMAND to be put under Marshall Law. They'll do so while cheering exuberantly. You do know that 1 in 5 Government Schooled American graduates lack the ability to read and write? You do know the average American barely reads at a Grade 6 level. That's the mentality of a 12 year old. Did you know, some reflex data taken in the 1800s suggests that the average IQ has been falling in the West for the last couple hundred years. Odd isn't it? Because the modern IQ tests suggested the opposite (well, until this last decade, where even a lifetime of test prep can no longer hold back the obvious).

Anyway, sure, we agree on this one. Just not on the timing or manner. If that matters?

 

[joepistole]

I would not be in the least surprised if Trump ultimately calls for a state of emergency and calls for "Marshall law" due to the loss of so many incredibly valuable staff...and subsequent government dysfunction.

Nor would I, the only hope we have are the people around Trump, and at this point, that's not looking very good either. He has surrounded himself with a bunch of right wing extremists. One of his closest advisers recently stated, the media should. "keep its mouth shut". I guess he doesn't know the US isn't his beloved Mother Russia. We still have a free press here. The media is not yet a mouthpiece for the president.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/media/stephen-bannon-trump-news-media.html?_r=0

 

[Quantum Quack]

The pattern that Trumps is demonstrating leads inexorably towards a situation where by he eliminates all opposition. Ultimately he will issue an exec order calling in the military to help him govern the population. This is an almost standard pattern that all wanna be dictators exhibit.
Create chaos, install the military to fix it and then purge the the population of dissent. ( secret police, gestapo etc)
When he deliberately causes enough public outrage and civil order is under threat due to rioting and protest he will make that call...
Now what the military will do is another question. Perhaps a purge of the USA generals is about to be undertaken.... ( most likely actually ) As he has done with foreign affairs he most likely will do with the Military.
(the smile on Putin's face may just about be his last)
It really is time for true USA patriots who value democracy to make a stand but do it in a way that is very clever and not blatant.

 

[Michael]

so you can't justify your inability to discuss Trumps actions? Is that it?
and continue to dump on an "out of office ex president".

You want me to 'justify' the actions of a POTUS? Why? I agree, the role of POTUS no longer reflects that by which it was assigned to under the auspices of the US Constitution.

From one step in front of the other, we went from being America (mostly an idea of individualism and civil liberty - primarily for the decedents of the English founders incidentally) to the legal identity now known as the United States, a progressive socialistic Nation State based on collectivism. From our notion of 'money' to 'property'. Even our body, all nicely regulated for the 'common good'.

Anyway, there is no going back. We go forward. Perhaps through war. Perhaps through Dear Leader. Whatever form progressive socialism happens to take - no one can know. But what we do know is, at the end of that road, there is no "West". At least not as we knew it. Is that happening through Trump. Probably not. Maybe. But I seriously doubt it. If anything, he's probably putting the breaks on things a bit. And while I'm sure it seems like that must be the exactly opposite of true, I'd suggest we both return to these posts in a few years and there's no major change - we reflect on which cognitive biases led us astray?

No, Trump's role is just to give people that feel-good feeling you get when something gets done, which happens, when it bypasses congress. As a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain, most Americans are watching the whirlwind that is Trump's executive orders, and thinking: WTF were all these other POTUS doing in office? As a matter of fact, Trumps already topping Obama's last approval rating.

Funny isn't it? Almost fickle. Something you'd expect from a 12 year old.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Well here we absolutely agree. That time isn't now. So no, no Marshall Law under Trump. Also, you seem to think Americans will be put under "Marshall Law". That's not how it works. Americans will DEMAND to be put under Marshall Law. They'll do so while cheering exuberantly.

Anyway, sure, we agree on this one. Just not on the timing or manner. If that matters?

that's how it worked in the past... Michael get with the times man.. Trump is rewriting history to suit his own agenda.

 

[Quantum Quack]

As a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain, most Americans are watching the whirlwind that is Trump's executive orders, and thinking: WTF were all these other POTUS doing in office?

extreme:
so Trump pushes the button and wipes out Mexican immigration in less then 3 minutes. yep.. he got the job done.....

 

[Seattle]

You guys can't discuss anything without exaggeration and drama. I agree that Trump is behaving more like the early stages of a dictator like regime. Expecting the press to just keep their mouth's shut is also ridiculous.

The title of the thread however is just drama. The bit about ambassadors being "fired" is just silly. That's always the case with every administration. It's the same with political appointees in the State Dept administration. At a certain level they all submit letters of resignation. Many are accepted and some are not.

That's how it always goes.

Trump is trying to show how "decisive" he is and how "easy" it is to promote change. He isn't used to politics so he is going to ultimately fall on his face and look like even more of a clown than he already is but getting all excited about "firing the entire State Department" is just nonsense.

Why not intelligently discuss what he really is doing rather than create all of this drama where very little actually exists?

 

[Quantum Quack]

The bit about ambassadors being "fired" is just silly. That's always the case with every administration. It's the same with political appointees in the State Dept administration. At a certain level they all submit letters of resignation. Many are accepted and some are not.

But to do so with out suitable replacements, even in mind is very unusual if not unprecedented on such a massive scale.
Apparently the resignations are of non-political career admin staff

Do you realize that the USA is essentially flying blind at the moment in world affairs... right now with poor UN representation and very limited ambassadorial representation?

Have you got any idea what that may mean to USA interests in the immediate to long term?

 

[Seattle]

But to do so with out suitable replacements, even in mind is very unusual if not unprecedented on such a massive scale.
Apparently the resignations are of non-political career admin staff

Do you realize that the USA is essentially flying blind at the moment in world affairs... right now with poor UN representation and very limited ambassadorial representation?

Have you got any idea what that may mean to USA interests in the immediate to long term?

You do realize that the Obama administration did the same with respect to ambassadors. They were all to be out of there by Inauguration Day.

The high level administration staff were political appointees as well. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about Trump but this isn't one of them.

 

[Tiassa]

​

You do realize that the Obama administration did the same with respect to ambassadors. They were all to be out of there by Inauguration Day.

No, this is being discussed as a "break with precedent"↱. Downplaying the differences is the Breitbart↱ response. It is in some ways similar, though, to how a random disruption in Africa↱ as President Trump's inauguration drew nigh reiterated the importance of his transition team's failure to line up enough people to take over the executive branch; they ended up retaining fifty Obama administration officials↱.
____________________

Notes:

Davis, Julie Hirschfeld. "In Break With Precedent, Obama Envoys Are Denied Extensions Past Inauguration Day". The New York Times. 5 January 2017. NYTimes.com. 26 January 2017. http://nyti.ms/2jaqP7c

Hayward, John. "No, Trump’s Dismissal of Obama’s Ambassadors Is Not an Unprecedented Crisis". Big Government. 6 January 2017. Breitbart.com. 26 January 2017. http://bit.ly/2kz4QTA

Fabian, Jordan and Ben Kamisar. "Trump keeping 50 Obama administration officials". The Hill. 19 January 2017. TheHill.com. 26 January 2017. http://bit.ly/2iTGMJP

Maddow, Rachel. "Trump to enter office with gaping holes in major agencies". The Rachel Maddow Show. 18 January 2017. msnbc.com. 26 January 2017. http://on.msnbc.com/2kzsbZp

 

[Yazata]

The title of the thread however is just drama. The bit about ambassadors being "fired" is just silly. That's always the case with every administration. It's the same with political appointees in the State Dept administration. At a certain level they all submit letters of resignation. Many are accepted and some are not.

That's how it always goes.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/54811...itical-appointees-not-foreign-service-experts

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/care...appointees-state-department/story?id=26605856

The top administrative levels of the State Department, like the top administrative levels of many government departments, are mostly filled by political appointees. These people often change when administrations change.

 

[joepistole]

The pattern that Trumps is demonstrating leads inexorably towards a situation where by he eliminates all opposition. Ultimately he will issue an exec order calling in the military to help him govern the population. This is an almost standard pattern that all wanna be dictators exhibit.
Create chaos, install the military to fix it and then purge the the population of dissent. ( secret police, gestapo etc)
When he deliberately causes enough public outrage and civil order is under threat due to rioting and protest he will make that call...
Now what the military will do is another question. Perhaps a purge of the USA generals is about to be undertaken.... ( most likely actually ) As he has done with foreign affairs he most likely will do with the Military.
(the smile on Putin's face may just about be his last)
It really is time for true USA patriots who value democracy to make a stand but do it in a way that is very clever and not blatant.

That's a very legitimate fear. Trump idolizes Putin; so it should be expected that he would duplicate Putin's path to dictatorship.

This is serious stuff. Look out Mexico. Trump may take over and annex your oil fields to pay for his wall.

This is scary stuff. Trump is not only mentally unstable, he is completely without morals. Our institutions failed us.

On the good side, Trump is incredibly unpopular with most Americans, and I expect it will only get worse and as that happens I expect Trump will become more erratic.

On another note, American democracy was downgraded recently from a full democracy to a flawed democracy, and I agree.

 

[paddoboy]

That's a very legitimate fear. Trump idolizes Putin; so it should be expected that he would duplicate Putin's path to dictatorship.

This is serious stuff. Look out Mexico. Trump may take over and annex your oil fields to pay for his wall.

This is scary stuff. Trump is not only mentally unstable, he is completely without morals. Our institutions failed us.

On the good side, Trump is incredibly unpopular with most Americans, and I expect it will only get worse and as that happens I expect Trump will become more erratic.

Forgetting what sometimes is portrayed in Hollywood movies, what chance has Donald Duck to enter the necessary codes press the red button and nuc someone he doesn't like?

 

[joepistole]

Forgetting what sometimes is portrayed in Hollywood movies, what chance has Donald Duck to enter the necessary codes press the red button and nuc someone he doesn't like?

I think a very good chance. The man has surrounded himself with some very crazy and morally deficient advisers, e.g Flynn, Brannon, Conway, et al.

 

[Michael]

extreme:
so Trump pushes the button and wipes out Mexican immigration in less then 3 minutes. yep.. he got the job done.....

What are you talking about? Are you suggesting Trump is going to nuke Mexico???

That does not sound rational. No, Trump isn't going to nuke mexico. Trump may attempt to put a 20% tariff on things made in Mexico and sold in the USA. Or, maybe Mexico is going to start paying for a wall. A big wall. A big beautiful white wall.

LOL (you have to admit, that was the running joke, only a few months back)


As I understand, sanctuary cities, may have their funding cut. Which is interesting. I think it can be summed up like this: 'When you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change. The devil changes you.' Welcome to Progressive Socialism al-la fiat currency. See, when you control the money, you needn't care for who makes the laws. They'll do as they're told.


As an aside, what do you think Australia would do if a few thousand undocumented illegal immigrants were found in Sydney? Give them sanctuary? Or ship them off to Nauru? What is the difference between America building a wall, and Australia building a navel force tasked with stopping illegal immigrants entering as 'boat people'? What would the Australian Federal Government do if the Governor of Sydney and Melbourne refused to deport undocumented illegal immigrants? What if this was driving down the price of labor and making it hard for Australian laborers to get work? What if cash-in-hand was a way of life. Normal?

Would it seem odd to suggest the PM was going to nuke Indonesia? Not very likely....

 

[Quantum Quack]

What are you talking about? Are you suggesting Trump is going to nuke Mexico???

sort of... as away to exemplify the fact that Trump likes to get the job done. (as you stated).. he is totally unpredictable except that he is predictably unpredictable. Nuking Mexico in a twitter fit is highly possible IMO especially as the UN has been successfully neutered. (or soon will be)

All nuclear non-proliferation treaties are to be considered suspended.

That does not sound rational. No, Trump isn't going to nuke Mexico. Trump may attempt to put a 20% tariff on things made in Mexico and sold in the USA. Or, maybe Mexico is going to start paying for a wall. A big wall. A big beautiful white wall.

and the insanity of it is

"Who is paying the proposed tariff?" certainly not Mexico.

See?

The USA people will end up paying for the wall regardless ( hyper inflation) but it will be packaged as a big win for the USA, when tariff payers pay for the wall and not Mexico.

 

[Quantum Quack]

As an aside, what do you think Australia would do if a few thousand undocumented illegal immigrants were found in Sydney? Give them sanctuary? Or ship them off to Nauru? What is the difference between America building a wall, and Australia building a navel force tasked with stopping illegal immigrants entering as 'boat people'? What would the Australian Federal Government do if the Governor of Sydney and Melbourne refused to deport undocumented illegal immigrants? What if this was driving down the price of labor and making it hard for Australian laborers to get work? What if cash-in-hand was a way of life. Normal?

I don't agree with Australia's human rights violations any more than I agree with building a useless wall between Mexico and the USA.

There are better solutions and ones that knee jerk, paranoid leaders can not fathom

 

[Quantum Quack]

What if cash-in-hand was a way of life. Normal?

and live with out any infrastructure like roads, sewerage, water, electricity, law and order... yeah.. great life... try Mexico for cash in hand solutions...try Brazil for the same.. so on and so on...