Following Presidential Advice:

sowhatifit'sdark said:
Yeah, and not only are they injected, they often contain...disinfectants, like Thimersol and Formaldehyde.

And I damn sure hope you're right, because they seem to be rushing this vaccine along at an incredible and possibly not safe rate, with human trials going. Put that in the midst of all this talk of mandatory and worldwide vaccination.....I just hope you're right that it's a long way off.
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As far as I'm aware, the only "talk" of mandatory vaccination is among paranoid conspiracy theorists and Russian disinformation trolls.

Like you, perhaps? :D
 
(Q) said:
Yes, we can all see those words, it's you who ignores the rest of the transcript that provide those words with context.
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I don't ignore the 'rest' of the transcript. In fact, if you've been following my posts, I've covered the transcript. And guess what? "Something like that" is central to the transcript on the disinfection part. And if you kept up with the news in general, the company pioneering UV light treatment probes inside the body was in the news 4 days before Trump's transcript.
 
Benson said:
I don't ignore the 'rest' of the transcript. In fact, if you've been following my posts, I've covered the transcript. And guess what? "Something like that" is central to the transcript on the disinfection part.
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You are focusing entirely on that phrase and are ignoring the rest of the transcript and the video, that's as obvious as Trumps insane blunder. It's actually getting pathetic and sickening that you're still trying to defend that clown. What kind of person does that?
 
exchemist said:
As far as I'm aware, the only "talk" of mandatory vaccination is among paranoid conspiracy theorists and Russian disinformation trolls.

Like you, perhaps? :D
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Way to go ad hom for no reason. You are aware that there are many places where vaccines are compulsory already. Not the covid vaccine, which doesn't exist yet. You did read what I wrote about vaccines having disinfectants in them. The idea that one would inject disinfectants is supposedly considered ludicrous by scientists, but, then, there they are.

As far as forced vaccination, Denmark passed a law giving the state and police power to force covid vaccinations and more....
https://www.thelocal.dk/20200313/denmark-passes-far-reaching-emergency-coronavirus-law

But you're probably right, the Danish are probably all Russian disinformation trolls.

A number of Western governments are consider colored cards which would allow people to work if one has been tested for the antibodies. Well, if you didn't get the disease, then you're getting back to work might depend on getting the vaccine. That parallels the measures taken to enforce vaccination of children, such as in California where a recent law made vaccination there mandatory.

Here's some not anti-vaxxers arguing for mandatory vaccinations...
https://blog.oup.com/2020/04/why-vaccines-should-be-compulsory/
 
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sowhatifit'sdark said:
Way to go ad hom for no reason. You are aware that there are many places where vaccines are compulsory already. Not the covid vaccine, which doesn't exist yet. You did read what I wrote about vaccines having disinfectants in them. The idea that one would inject disinfectants is supposedly considered ludicrous by scientists, but, then, there they are.

As far as forced vaccination, Denmark passed a law giving the state and police power to force covid vaccinations and more....
https://www.thelocal.dk/20200313/denmark-passes-far-reaching-emergency-coronavirus-law

But you're probably right, the Danish are probably all Russian disinformation trolls.

A number of Western governments are consider colored cards which would allow people to work if one has been tested for the antibodies. Well, if you didn't get the disease, then you're getting back to work might depend on getting the vaccine. That parallels the measures taken to enforce vaccination of children, such as in California where a recent law made vaccination there mandatory.

Here's some not anti-vaxxers arguing for mandatory vaccinations...
https://blog.oup.com/2020/04/why-vaccines-should-be-compulsory/
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Well, you are displaying a number of the signs, by putting out this disinformation, though obviously I can't tell whether you are a Russian troll or just very badly informed.

You can't spell thiomersal.

You don't distinguish between a commercial disinfectant and an obsolete vaccine preservative that was used at microgramme doses, far too low to make it a disinfectant.

You don't recognise that while formaldehyde is used in the production of some vaccines, it is removed before the vaccine is ready for use.

You are right about the Danish emergency law, but it expires a year from now and is perfectly reasonable in the meantime.

The point about a so-called immunity certificate is that it may be needed while the population does not yet have herd immunity, to prevent another outbreak of the epidemic. This seems to be achieved when 60-70% of the population is immune, either naturally or by vaccination. Once herd immunity is reached, there is no rationale for continuing to require a certificate.

Apart from this, there is no legal requirement for vaccination anywhere, so far as I am aware. I can't access your blog link. There has been a debate about making childhood vaccinations compulsory for attending schools, brought about by the decline in vaccination coverage in recent years. Some think this is caused by the propaganda put out by the anti-vaxxer idiots, but others believe there are more complex causes of low take-up, to do with both parents working, lack of convenient surgery hours, lack of reach of health communications in some communities and so on. Hence the as yet unresolved debate about making vaccination a condition of school attendance.

So where are these "many places" where vaccination is mandatory and why do you think it is a problem? Or are you taking about things like yellow fever vaccination certificates for travellers to Africa etc? Those have been around for decades and most sensible people think they have been a very good thing.
 
exchemist said:
Well, you are displaying a number of the signs, by putting out this disinformation, though obviously I can't tell whether you are a Russian troll or just very badly informed. Hm. You don't seem to understand that the problem with an ad hom is not whether it may or may not contain correct information, but rather that it is either part of a fallacious argument (implicitly or explicitly) or it makes the discussion into something further from respectful discussion or both. I am neither an anti-vaxxer nor a Russian troll. I do think there are problems with some vaccines and I think some vaccines contain stuff they should not. That is part of a very complicated discussion that I won't go into here. And there was no disinformation.

You can't spell thiomersal.

LOL. Check your own spelling. This is on a par with ad hom arguments. Deal instead with the content. I do love that you ended up spelling it incorrectly yourself, but that, in the end, has nothing to do with whether you make good points or not. And it really is cheap shit to say I 'can't' spell it. I mispelled it. You now mispelled it. I am sure you can and likely will, perhaps have before.

You don't distinguish between a commercial disinfectant and an obsolete vaccine preservative that was used at microgramme doses, far too low to make it a disinfectant.
It's use is precisely being used as a disinfectant, in the vaccine itself. And it was the type of chemical along with adjuvants that were kept out of the German governments vaccinations for Swine Flu. The government and I believe the military were going to get a 'clean' vaccine, the general population one with chemicals like Thimerosal and adjuvants. The 'important people' one would think should get the most effective and safest vaccine.

I was just pointing out the irony of people going apeshit over the idea of injecting disinfectants, when it is common practice.

You don't recognise that while formaldehyde is used in the production of some vaccines, it is removed before the vaccine is ready for use.
Yes, they remove a lot of it, however, children, for example will end up, over the course of vaccinations with several mg going into their bodies...
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients/formaldehyde

It is naturally occuring in bodies, but that's besides the point. There it is a disinfectant being injected. So the idea that some kind of disinfectant chemical could be used is not just idiotic.


You are right about the Danish emergency law, but it expires a year from now and is perfectly reasonable in the meantime.
Its being perfectly reasonable, even if true, is utterly beside the point. The point was it was not just anti-vaxxers talking about this and in the case of Denmark legislating it.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't concede that simple point.
The issue has come up in Canada also, with a large percentage (60% )of the population in favor of mandatory vaccination for Covid19, presumably a group that is not anti-vaxxers.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ing-covid-19-vaccine-mandatory-poll-1.4914824

The Danes certainly have the option of renewing it. I think they thought the crisis would be over or significantly reduced well before the end of the year. Over here in Scandanvia much of the early talk was that it would be over by Summer, in the main. (I'm not in Denmark, but in Sweden)

The point about a so-called immunity certificate is that it may be needed while the population does not yet have herd immunity, to prevent another outbreak of the epidemic. This seems to be achieved when 60-70% of the population is immune, either naturally or by vaccination. Once herd immunity is reached, there is no rationale for continuing to require a certificate.

Yeah, I know all that. But if the lockdown goes on for the length time for example Fauci is expecting it to, this could lead to such certificates - which are being used in Germany or will be, and it seems other countries may, could lead to a defacto compulsion to be vaccinated. Right or wrong is a separate issue. I am arguing against your point that just anti-vaxxers have this idea.

Apart from this, there is no legal requirement for vaccination anywhere, so far as I am aware.

We don't have a vaccine yet, so it would not make sense. Denmark gave the police the power to force vaccination - iow there would be no indirect coersion around shopping or services or school or getting to work but presumably up to physical coercion.

I can't access your blog link. There has been a debate about making childhood vaccinations compulsory for attending schools, brought about by the decline in vaccination coverage in recent years. Some think this is caused by the propaganda put out by the anti-vaxxer idiots, but others believe there are more complex causes of low take-up, to do with both parents working, lack of convenient surgery hours, lack of reach of health communications in some communities and so on. Hence the as yet unresolved debate about making vaccination a condition of school attendance.

It's mandatory now in California and a wide variety of vaccines are mandatory across the world with variations country to country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Compulsory_vaccination

There's a nice chart under the heading by country about a fifth of the way through that page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Compulsory_vaccination
As far as do what do I think is the problem?' That is a very complicated discussion on an issue I not consider binary. If you are actually interested in some of the problems with some vaccines - and with adjuvants, corporate behavior and record and more - you could look here....
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/

And there is a wealth of scientific research presented in a case by case way, including meta-studies. Certainly many of the anti-vaxxers consider all vaccines bad and think in just the same binary terms people on the other side often do. Me, I think it's more complicated and that most people on both sides are extremely poorly misinformed. And then the name calling gets thrown in, us vs. them, stuff.

Just some fairly simple comments got an ad hom, the typical dominance move of pointing out my spelling error, a bunch of irrelevent stuff, presumptions of what I must be ignorant of, assumptions along binary terms, and a lack of concession around something so basic as an unnecessary use of an ad hom.

Waste of my time.
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Not sure what's going on here, and I'm really too lazy to delve any further into it...Suffice to say and make a couple of points...Trump and what the OP referred to regarding what he said, is the act of a irresponsible ratbag, and when taken in with his many other less then smart statements, supports that ratbaggery. I said it once before, but Americans voting in this fool, need to really have a good long hard look at themselves.

On vaccinations in general, it is mandatory in Australia and children not being vaccinated with the usual stuff, are refused entry to child mining centers and Kindergartens. Also in Australia, parents of unvaccinated children, are refused governemnt assistance and welfare. AntiVaxxers, along with Trump are ratbags, similar in many ways to the ratbaggery displayed by conspiracy pushers in general, and UFO's of Alien origins adherents.
 
Benson said:
I don't ignore the 'rest' of the transcript. In fact, if you've been following my posts, I've covered the transcript.
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No, you haven't. You left out the briefing he parroted (and got wrong.)

It's sad that the only way you can make your point is by cherrypicking.
 
sowhatifit'sdark
Your point that disinfectant may be used in vaccine may be valid but you are playing with perception context.
To the less educated in the world the word Disinfectant means something quite different to a virologist working on a vaccine.
Trump was using the term as any less educated person would, referring to household hospital grade disinfectant and certainly not the agents used in making vaccines.

It is the fear that the less informed ( and less intelligent) may do damage to themselves due to irresponsible comments by a POTUS that should know better.
 
geordief said:
Could swear Bill Gates pronounced "kindergarten as "kidney garden" last night on CNN.

He is very knowledgeable on his vaccine etc subject btw ,but a bit of a bore.
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Maybe it's an American thing, like nookular and covfefe.
 
sowhatifit'sdark said:
And for those still managing to think that only anti-vaxxers are talking about mandatory vaccination....
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Except in the ACTUAL HEADLINE the article states they are looking for "global cooperation." "Cooperation" is the opposite of "mandatory." So yes, only you are talking about mandatory vaccinations. Why is that so important to you? Why not educate people and let them choose for themselves?
 
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