Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon

There is no reason to believe that the brain can perform the high level functions necessary for an NDE experience under conditions of being clinically dead. If the brain was performing all of those functions, there would be brainwaves.
 
Mazulu said:
It probably depends upon the definition of each NDE'er. But it sounds like if you don't believe in God, HEY! YOU GET TO MEET GOD! How awesome is that?
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Great. Which god am I meeting? (Maybe not so great, depending on the god.)
 
Mazulu said:
The skeptics argument is that even if the patient is clinically dead and their EKG is flat, that somehow the brain can conjure up 3200+ near death experiences. Maybe skeptics should call it the "zombie brain hypothesis".
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Who knows exactly when these images are being conceived? It could be all in the brief time they are being sedated or when they are coming back into consciousness.
 
One more time from Captain Obvious here... NDE = Near death experience. Note the word "NEAR". Believing that an NDE tells you anything about an "afterlife" is equivalent to believing that knocking on a door tells you what is on the other side of that door.
 
spidergoat said:
Who knows exactly when these images are being conceived? It could be all in the brief time they are being sedated or when they are coming back into consciousness.
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This point has been made repeatedly through out...
gmilam said:
One more time from Captain Obvious here... NDE = Near death experience. Note the word "NEAR". Believing that an NDE tells you anything about an "afterlife" is equivalent to believing that knocking on a door tells you what is on the other side of that door.
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As has this one.


Problem is, these points are bouncing off the NTE brains.
 
gmilam said:
One more time from Captain Obvious here... NDE = Near death experience. Note the word "NEAR". Believing that an NDE tells you anything about an "afterlife" is equivalent to believing that knocking on a door tells you what is on the other side of that door.
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Well, the data says that 3500+ people having NDE experiences claimed to float above their bodies, meet Jesus, meet angels, meet loved ones, experience God's love, experience bliss, describe the operating room (in a few cases). I dunno, it really sounds like a pre-view to an afterlife.

I have an idea. Let's take a room full of 1000 skeptics, physicists, atheists and non-believers. We'll get a highly skilled medical team to stop each person's heart. They'll verifiy lack of brain activity. Give them each 2 minutes, and then restart each person's heart. Of the 1000 skeptics, physicists, etc., we'll see which one's are willing to admit that they had a Near Death Experience (if they did of course). Not everyone has one. Maybe we can use more sensitive brain scanning equipment to look for brain activity while they're clinically dead.
 
And that's why we don't have as detailed research as other topics. Not everyone is willing to go to those extremes to prove a negative.
 
Mazulu said:
Well, the data says that 3500+ people having NDE experiences claimed to float above their bodies, meet Jesus, meet angels, meet loved ones, experience God's love, experience bliss, describe the operating room (in a few cases). I dunno, it really sounds like a pre-view to an afterlife.

I have an idea. Let's take a room full of 1000 skeptics, physicists, atheists and non-believers. We'll get a highly skilled medical team to stop each person's heart. They'll verifiy lack of brain activity. Give them each 2 minutes, and then restart each person's heart. Of the 1000 skeptics, physicists, etc., we'll see which one's are willing to admit that they had a Near Death Experience (if they did of course). Not everyone has one. Maybe we can use more sensitive brain scanning equipment to look for brain activity while they're clinically dead.
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Just because there is some sensory experience related to such extreme medical situations doesn't mean that those perceptions represent what those people think it did. In other words, if I clonk you on the head, you will see little flashing lights like birds tweeting around your head. Those lights aren't real, no matter how many people get conked on the head and experience the same thing.
 
Mazulu said:
Well, the data says that 3500+ people having NDE experiences claimed to float above their bodies, meet Jesus, meet angels, meet loved ones, experience God's love, experience bliss, describe the operating room (in a few cases). I dunno, it really sounds like a pre-view to an afterlife.
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Sounds like the little white dot in the middle of a CRT to me.

I have an idea. Let's take a room full of 1000 skeptics, physicists, atheists and non-believers. We'll get a highly skilled medical team to stop each person's heart. They'll verifiy lack of brain activity. Give them each 2 minutes, and then restart each person's heart. Of the 1000 skeptics, physicists, etc., we'll see which one's are willing to admit that they had a Near Death Experience (if they did of course). Not everyone has one. Maybe we can use more sensitive brain scanning equipment to look for brain activity while they're clinically dead.
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What, no believers? I might believe you are serious if you go first.
 
http://near-death.com/experiences/evidence06.html said:
Jesus - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs who report seeing Jesus were those in the Christian (81%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (0%) category. The atheist category was (50%). The non-Christian category was (13%). The idea that more people in the Christian category see Jesus, may be an example of "getting what you expect." The most interesting statistic is that none of the non-religious NDErs saw Jesus. The reason may be because they are "getting what they expect." The reason for a relatively large percentage of atheists seeing Jesus could be that they are "getting what they need." One the other hand, it may be a reflection of the fact that Christianity is the dominant religion in the West where the vast majority of these experiences come from in my NDE analysis.
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Why do 50% if atheists see Jesus, but none claim to see the tooth fairy? Or the flying spaghetti monster?
 
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Mazulu said:
???
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You don't remember old TV sets and the little white dot that glowed for a long time after turning the power off. It took a while for the electricity to discharge.

The brain is shutting down. As the "energy disipates" (for lack of a better analogy) all the images you associate with dying come floating to the top. Even your own post kept saying, "You get what you expect". It doesn't really appear all that mysterious or surprising to me.
 
gmilam said:
You don't remember old TV sets and the little white dot that glowed for a long time after turning the power off. It took a while for the electricity to discharge.

The brain is shutting down. As the "energy disipates" (for lack of a better analogy) all the images you associate with dying come floating to the top. Even your own post kept saying, "You get what you expect". It doesn't really appear all that mysterious or surprising to me.
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Images you associate with dying "come floating to the top"? When you're clinically dead, you shouldn't see anything.
 
Mazulu said:
Images you associate with dying "come floating to the top"? When you're clinically dead, you shouldn't see anything.
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Clinically dead? You think machines can register every synapse as it discharges?? How can you know what one should see when they are "clinically dead"?
 
gmilam said:
Clinically dead? You think machines can register every synapse as it discharges?? How can you know what one should see when they are "clinically dead"?
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There comes a point in which if you can't tell the difference between a preview of the hereafter, and a brain shutting down, then you're on your own. There just isn't any reasonable justification to think that NDE's are not real.

Now that I think about it, I agree about the tunnel. When you see the tunnel, that's your soul watching your brain go offline.
 
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