Muslim????

[slotty]

i have been a long time reader on this forum,and find it very interesting and depressing at the same time.i have to agree with Vienna,the average joe in the street is sick of whinging PC groups force feeding us crap about our multi-cultural society,look at the type of people we have too put up with ,proud muslim for example! on his own he has convinced me that Islam is a religion of hate.religion?its all crap,muslims and christians arguing over who invented god.twats

 

[Tiassa]

Vienna

"Why Muslim"?

Frankly, if you can't use Google and your brain to figure it out for yourself ...?

The short answer is that the word Muslim means approximately one who submits.

In the meantime:

I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!

I'm going to pick on the Irish for a moment; after all, as Boris Saavedra notes in the Fall, 2003 issue of the National Defense University's Security and Defense Studies Review,

Terrorism as we know it grew out of secret societies of Italian and Irish patriots, but it also manifested itself in most Balkan countries, in Turkey and Egypt, and of course among the extreme anarchists, who believed in the strategy of propaganda by deed. Last but not least were the Russian terrorists, who prior to the First World War were by far the most active and successful. Terrorism was widely discussed among the European far left, not because the use of violence as a political statement was a monopoly of the left but because the right was the political establishment, and prior to World War I the left was seen as the agent of change, trying to overthrow those in power. However, most leader(s) of the left rejected terrorism for both philosophical and practical reasons. (Saavedra)

And the Irish "terrorists" continue to draw bad press, even in the age of anti-Islamic paranoia, as Rachel Ehrenfeld reported in August, 2002:

Paul Collinson, a British explosives expert working with the Red Cross, identified hundreds of explosive devices found there and noted that "the pipe bombs I found in Jenin are exact replicas of ones I found in Northern Ireland." The Daily Telegraph quoted a U.S. government official as saying in response: "If there was clear and convincing evidence that the IRA has been training Palestinians in bomb-making techniques, then we are facing a grave and grievous situation for the IRA — it would surely lead to a reassessment of whether the IRA should be put on the designated list of terrorist organizations with a global reach."

The incident came on the heels of a shooting spree of ten Israelis with a bolt-action rifle, perpetrated by a single sniper who left his rifle behind. This technique was also identified as a Irish Republican Army (IRA) trademark.

But the IRA's connections are not limited to the Middle East or the Palestinians. On April 24, 2001, the House of Representatives Committee on International Relations published the findings of its investigation into IRA activities in Colombia. Their report clearly demonstrated a longstanding connection with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), mentioned at least 15 more IRA terrorists who have been traveling in and out of Colombia since 1998, and estimated that the IRA had received at least $2 million in drug proceeds for training members of FARC. (National Review)

I'll skip the tacky 2001 map by the BBC showing IRA interests in a whole five places outside Ireland, but the accompanying article offers a shallow overview of the IRA's dealings in light of the arrests that year of Irish Republican "experts" in Colombia brought brief scrutiny to a cause that had been enjoying several years of positive attention from the world community. The Provisional IRA received assistance from Libya, is often linked to the ETA, and the IRA's cellular structure is popular with other terrorist organizations, including Al Qaeda.

Now here's the thing: I like the Irish. When I run into them in Seattle, they're beyond simply nice. They're great. Their bars are the best in the area. I intend to spend some time in Ireland at some point in my life just because. But none of that changes the fact that we cannot discuss "Muslim" terrorism, cannot discuss the American Drug War, cannot discuss the Palestinian issue ... without running into the Irish. They trade, they train, they lend and borrow, and they bestow unto terrorism a structural contribution that is, decades later, still effective in the hands of others.

So I'm curious what you propose, Vienna, to do about that nasty Irish problem in Europe? And remember this: the English never figured out the answer to that question.

Oh, yeah, and when you figure the amount of American money that has gone to the IRA and its various splinters ... what do you propose Europe do about its nasty American problem?

Reference & Citation

• Saavedra, Boris. "Confronting Terrorism in Latin America: Latin America and United States Policy Implications." Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies - National Defense University: Security and Defense Studies Review, Fall, 2003. See http://www3.ndu.edu/chds/Journal/PDF/2003-0403/Saavedra-article.pdf (Note: PDF download - see link below for SDSR.)
• Ehrenfeld, Rachel. "IRA + PLO = Terror." National Review Online, August 21, 2002. See http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-ehrenfeld082102.asp
• Jackson, Patrick. "The IRA's foreign connections." BBC News Online, August 14, 2001. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1490663.stm
• BBC. "Colombia questions IRA suspects." August 15, 2001. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1490244.stm
• Council on Foreign Relations. "Irish Republican Army." Terrorism: Questions & Answers, 2004. See http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/ira2.html

See Also

• National Defense University: http://www3.ndu.edu/
• Security and Defense Studies Review: http://www3.ndu.edu/chds/Journal/
• Council on Foreign Relations/Markle Foundation - Terrorism: Questions & Answers: http://www.terrorismanswers.com/home/
• Wikipedia - "Muslim": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
• Google: http://www.google.com/

 

[Eluminate]

The folly with the muslims in general is that they want us to tollerate them without showing any tollerance in return. And no matter how hard you wanna disagree with this statement it is true. They want respect based on their religious outlooks instead of their deeds or mutual adherance.

I am replying to the starter of the thread and his first post all of the other posts with iraq and saddam and bush are clouding the issue here. They are irrelevant.

This isn't about politics its about peoples views on Islam as a whole and why they come off that way and why they trend that way.

The big problem is none of the muslims protest any attacks against westerners and feel that its ok no skin off my back they are non-believers after all. And when we feel that this condones the actions of the radicals which it does they cry out for tolerance... They could take a stand against their own radical elements and show solidarity and cohesion against radical and inhuman behavior but the first thing they do is cry out "You should be tolerant", "Islam is a religon of tolerance and peace" and so on and so forth. But words mean nothing, nothing at all people see but then they see all the action or non-action in rebuttal of those words and they are held as worthless.

The growing trend for muslims is fairly grim in Russia at least. Russia will probably have severel islamic minorities less in the coming decade its not a good thing but was unavoidable. If someone stings you enough , you eventually have to stomp em and thats exactly whats happening. Russia is in the same state as Israel is. Terrorist acts every week or so and unlike western democracies in Russia tolerance isn't the answer but action is. Eventually this "action" will spread along with radical muslims to other parts of the world. How gradual or rapid it transcends to other parts of the world depends on muslims themselves.

Russia has this little culture thing which is fairly simple: you hit me I hit you. Its fairly easy to grasp if you notice its politics and actions. Also notice that it enacted quotas and immigration barriers just like the west.

The whole problem with Islam is that killing of the non-believers is condoned and even encouraged. And it does say that in the Q'aran no matter how much they want us to see it as the book of peace and tolerance.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

You call invading another country to search for so called WMD's the West doing something? What the West has done Vienna in attacking Iraq is breach international law.

and what OBL did, what was that called? what is plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people called? would that qualify as a "breach of international law"?

It is when we have despots such as Bush, Blaire and Howard in power who are pushing fear and hate onto their populations that the hate and violence will continue.

though I don't support Baby Bush, if he & Blair qualify as despots, what would OLB, S. Huissein, M. Qaddafi & the Iranian mullahs be callled?

Islam is not to blame for terrorism. Humanity is to blame, because to hate is to feed people who perpetrate acts of terror.

is what you're saying, that muslims are too human? or that because muslims are hated, they must kill, because its an uncontrollable urge?

 

[567]

and what OBL did, what was that called? what is plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people called? would that qualify as a "breach of international law"?


[/COLOR]

was OBL muslim? is he? who is he anyway? why he is so important to you? so you consider him authroity on islam? just like you consider iran as a authority on islam. Frankly you are fucking stupid if you think obl acted as a muslim or iran has any authority over islam, only a ignorant like your self would be dumb enough to believe that or a southern baptist terrorist like your self.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.

 

[Bells]

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.

Errrm PM, that was a contradiction if there ever was one. You state that as long as Muslims are killed, that we will be killed then you go on to state that you disagree with how OBL implements it. Huh?

The advocation of killing any innocent individual is wrong, be they Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, etc. Your statement of "As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed... very simple" is vile and beyond the run of the mill fanaticalism. So I'm going to ask you a question PM, how would YOU implement it? If you agree with OBL's statement, how would YOU implement it differently? I'm not talking about the stopping the occupation of Muslim countries either. Just imagine all continues as it is now, how would you implement OBL's statement differently?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Errrm PM, that was a contradiction if there ever was one. You state that as long as Muslims are killed, that we will be killed then you go on to state that you disagree with how OBL implements it. Huh?

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!

 

[Vienna]

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!

Quick interpretation:

Proud Muslim is saying " Hells Bells - you caught me out"

 

[Bells]

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!

Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

 

[everneo]

Alternate way :

With the help of key board, mouse, cut&paste and links to his favourite sites. That he calls e-jihad. He wants to do the same as what OBL wants to do but does not want to risk losing his comforts.

Modus Operandi

To save Islam (because he is the shield of Islam, remember), he first attracts attack on Islam by provoking the 'infidels' and when the criticism forthcoming he refuses to engage in logical discussions and call them as 'islamophobes','hypocrites' etc. This way he gets the satisfaction of saving islam from the infidels of sciforums.

Hypocrisy at worst

He would list out all the islamic virtues but has none of them.

.. to be contd.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:
You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

True, I made the above statement in response to the claim of why some muslims committ an act of terror.

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

 

[Alaric]

PM, look at is this way -
The West at one point happened to be powerful enough to conquer all the Muslim countries. They then eventually left or were forced out, leaving a patchwork of states whose boundries don't take the populations' different compositions into account, meaning civil wars and dictatorships. They really screwed up. But it was the Cold War, so the US and Russia tried to gain allegience from whoever they could, and helped prop up nasty regimes as long as they did as they were told and gave them oil. OBL and al-Zawahiri think they have to get rid of the US presence in Arabia to overthrow the nasty Western-backed dictatorships (and establish not a democracy, but a pan-Arabic Talibanesque hell on earth). So they start bombing and killing, meaning that the dictatorships get even further entrenched and have even more excuses to treat their peoples badly, and Westerners for the first time start being really afraid of Islam. Eventually it gets so bad that the West feels the need to start removing regimes that they feel threaten them and their supply of oil.

OBL and friends didn't realise that with the end of the Cold War, the pressure on dictatorships to respect their citizens' rights would be ever stronger. The West usually tries harder to ensure stability than democracy and human rights, but we're improving, and its only a matter of time. Or else they did realise this and feared that Muslims were becoming too enlightened to modern values and wanted Muslims to start hating the West so they can realise their dream of enslaving all of the Muslim world under Islam. Either way, they're idiots.

And don't make it sound like the West just 'kills Muslims' for the hell of it - the US attacked after 9/11. The West may have helped oppress Muslims in their own countries, but they didn't kill them. I mean, if some religious freak gained a stranglehold on power in Denmark, I would love the US to come and rescue us, no matter how many bombs miss their target.

 

[everneo]

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

That is your stand and everyone knows about it.

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.

The simple question is what is your (i mean your, not the 2 billion muslims around the world you pretend to represent) means to implement it, different from OBL's.? encouraging the westerners to commit suicide.?

 

[Bells]

True, I made the above statement in response to the claim of why some muslims committ an act of terror.

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question PM. If it is too difficult for you to answer, just say so. In case you try to feign ignorance, here they are again:

So I'm going to ask you a question PM, how would YOU implement it? If you agree with OBL's statement, how would YOU implement it differently? I'm not talking about the stopping the occupation of Muslim countries either. Just imagine all continues as it is now, how would you implement OBL's statement differently?

So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

Thank you

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I am still waiting for you to answer my question PM. If it is too difficult for you to answer, just say so. In case you try to feign ignorance, here they are again:
Thank you

I dont know how this will be implemented, we shall wait and see...

 

[Flores]

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

It's dogmas and idiocities like these that dilutes and distracts us from the REAL problems. You with your stupid statements have just made the valid very real Palestine problem lost noise in the air.

Let me point directly to your lacking....First, you said MUSLIMS. Many arabs are not even muslims, so you have effectively used religion to divide existing nations and you have placed all muslims on a stationary target for all to spit on at their leisure. Second, you said, westerners, again effectively alienating people that don't remotely have anything to do with you and your non existing problem. You created your own victims and your own perpetrators, and it's all in your head non existant crap. If every single muslim wake up one morning and simply looked more carefully at their lives, we would be marching forward.

I think the son of a bitch "Gamal Abd ElNaser" started out this trend of emotional haphazard unintelligent style. First, you all insist on talking in a pluralistic sense, and thus immediately undermining any sense of democracy and killing any sense of individualism amongst your own. Second, you TALK TOO MUCH, thus alienating the world and diluting your own problems. Third, you spread all your dirty laundry out in the open infront of everyone. Fourth, you think out loud, making every it impossible to implement any thought.

Can't you reflect for a second and observe that a little candle can't blow in the wind....What does the arabs do to protect the potential within them....? Nothing...On the contrary, they purposely drain every potential toward their non existant so called common cause. They leave their little candles out in the wind to burn in vein...Bravo.

PM, the cause that you're living for doesn't exist, this same cause that you swear that you live and die by wouldn't do the same for you. You're wasting away in vein and carrying slogans for a non breathing non living who cares less cause. I would like to tell you the same thing that I would love to tell Bush. The people don't exist for the economy, the economy exist to serve the people. Same to you, People shouldn't die for peace, peace should exist to protect the lives of people.

If the arabs don't learn how to speak and act intelligently, they'll continue to be mocked and made irrelevant in every situation....and you'll continue to be a raging emotional disaster who threatens to blow himself as the answer to every problem. Good luck.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.

what do you think islam did at the start in 632? , you have been killing since your religion left Arabia, your co-religious haven't stopped yet, first Syria. Egypt, Byzantium, Spain, etc... What did Byzantium do to incur muslim wrath? Ah, just minding its business duking it out with the Persian Empire, & for good measure Arabs conquered the Persian Empire too. Thanks P_M, your people make your point explicedly. Have muslims ever believed in unconquered, live & let live peace? Check out any timelines, conquest, war, piracy, plunder, all start as soon as Mohammad conquers Mecca

 

[munim_786]

But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?


More genocides and more wars started and fought by christians then muslims. Why is that??

Since you claimed that Christianity is the only peacful religion of the world. *sigh*

in world war 2 alone 56.4 million people died - all the countries (except a few like Japan) where Christian majorities.

 

[munim_786]

Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:

You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

where in this statement does it say we should kill etc. it is saying why you should you have security etc. while we have destruction etc.