Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

[river]

Write4U

Yet mathematics , in and of its self , cannot produce and /nor create , a real physical object .

 

[Write4U]

Write4U
Yet mathematics , in and of its self , cannot produce and /nor create , a real physical object .

Yes it can, in a dynamical environment, if sufficient resources (relational values and mathematical functions) are available. This was demonstrated by Higgs who was able to mathematically (with values and functions) predict the "manifestation" of the Higgs boson. It earned him a Nobel prize.

The Nobel Prize in Physics Is Really a Nobel Prize in Math
Experiment is the ultimate judge of a theory, and that’s why we need expensive and sophisticated machines like CERN's particle accelerator. But the amazing fact is that scientists like Einstein and Higgs made their discoveries with little more than pen and paper.
EDWARD FRENKEL OCTOBER 9, 2013

This year's Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to François Englert and Peter W. Higgs for the prediction of the Higgs boson, which was experimentally confirmed 50 years later with the help of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). But how did Englert and Higgs theorize their particle, so long before the evidence was in hand? With math.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...hysics-is-really-a-nobel-prize-in-math/280430

p.s. that Higgs boson did not have an existence before and decayed back into non-existence (into simpler values) a picosecond after it's manifestation. Even the Higgs boson is "reducible" into "simpler" mathematical quantum values (quarks).

Long-sought decay of Higgs boson observed
Six years after its discovery, the Higgs boson has at last been observed decaying to fundamental particles known as bottom quarks. 28 AUGUST, 2018

Geneva, 28 August. Six years after its discovery, the Higgs boson has at last been observed decaying to fundamental particles known as bottom quarks. The finding, presented today at CERN1 by the ATLAS and CMS collaborations at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), is consistent with the hypothesis that the all-pervading quantum field behind the Higgs boson also gives mass to the bottom quark. Both teams have submitted their results for publication today.

https://home.cern/news/press-release/physics/long-sought-decay-higgs-boson-observed

quark (1) , noun
Physics

Any of a number of subatomic particles carrying a fractional electric charge, postulated as building blocks of the hadrons. Quarks have not been directly observed but theoretical predictions based on their existence have been confirmed experimentally.

• ‘Research into the atom's nucleus has uncovered a variety of subatomic particles, including quarks and gluons.’

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/quark

 

[river]

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Write4U

Yet mathematics , in and of its self , cannot produce and /nor create , a real physical object .

Yes it can, in a dynamical environment, if sufficient resources (relational values and mathematical functions) are available. This was demonstrated by Higgs w[QUOTEho was able to mathematically (with values and functions) predict the "manifestation" of the Higgs boson. It earned him a Nobel prize.

What resources

 

[Write4U]

↑
Write4U
What resources

"Relational Values" and "Mathematical Functions". See above

The empty space is not a physical object. In the abstract, it is a 3 dimensional mathematical pattern, a geometry , curved space.

The unreasonable relationship between mathematics and physics

Unintended consequences

That mathematics should be useful in physics is no surprise. Whenever we need to measure, count, and understand patterns or relationships in the world, maths is an essential tool.

What is surprising, however, is that even mathematics that has been developed for the pure pleasure of pure maths can prove to be uncannily useful in physics, sometimes a long time after it was first thought of.

A fascinating example is a particular geometric notion of curvature developed by the mathematician
Bernhard Riemann in the 19th century. Riemann cared nothing about physics when he came up with his ideas, and he certainly did not predict the dramatic developments in physics that were to flow from Albert Einstein's pen at the beginning of the 20th century. .......more

....
https://plus.maths.org/content/unreasonable-relationship-between-mathematics-and-physics

 

[river]

"Relational Values" and "Mathematical Functions". See above

But not based on the physical .

 

[Write4U]

But not based on the physical .

IMO, the mystery lies in the concept of universal wave/particle duality.

Half-the-time "enfolded" as a dynamical mathematical value potential and half-the-time "unfolded" as a physical pattern in reality.

David Bohm called this duality, the (mathematical) "Implicate Order" and the (physical) "Explicate Order'

 

[river]

river said: ↑
But not based on the physical .

IMO, the mystery lies in the concept of universal wave/particle duality.

Half-the-time "enfolded" as a dynamical mathematical value potential and half-the-time "unfolded" as a physical pattern in reality.

David Bohm called this duality, the (mathematical) "Implicate Order" and the (physical) "Explicate Order'

There is no " mystery " Write4U .

Both the wave and particle are physical things .

Highlighted

Disagree

There is No half this and that . Both the wave and particle make all things are In all things . Mathematics has no influence on anything . What orders things are the things themselves . By their very Nature .

 

[river]

↑

river
Yet mathematics , in and of its self , cannot produce and /nor create , a real physical object .

Yes it can, in a dynamical environment, if sufficient resources (relational values and mathematical functions) are available. This was demonstrated by Higgs who was able to mathematically (with values and functions) predict the "manifestation" of the Higgs boson. It earned him a Nobel prize.

Highlighted

A dynamical environment based on physical things .


Higgs didn't create the particle , Higgs Found the Particle .

 

[Write4U]

Both the wave and particle are physical things .

That's debatable.

Mechanical and electromagnetic waves transfer energy,[2], momentum, and information, but they do not transfer particles in the medium.

In mathematics and electronics waves are studied as signals.[3] On the other hand, some waves do not appear to move at all, like standing waves (which are fundamental to music) and hydraulic jumps. Some, like the probability waves of quantum mechanics, may be completely static.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave

 

[river]

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Both the wave and particle are physical things .

That's debatable.

Not really . Both the wave and particle effect and affect physical things . Because both have physical properties .

 

[river]

energy,[2], momentum, and information, but they do not transfer particles in the medium.
electronics waves are studied as signals.[3] On the other hand, some waves do not appear to move at all, like standing waves (which are fundamental to music) and hydraulic jumps. Some, like the probability waves of quantum mechanics, may be completely static.

The particles make up the wave .

Standing waves move around a physical object .

 

[Write4U]

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Not really . Both the wave and particle effect and affect physical things . Because both have physical properties .

And we are coming full circle to David Bohm and the "Pilot Wave Theory" which postulates that particles never behave as waves but follow a path which is guided by the Universal Pilot wave, which actually solves all particle /wave contradictions.

QUANTUM PHYSICS
New Support for Alternative Quantum View
An experiment claims to have invalidated a decades-old criticism against pilot-wave theory, an alternative formulation of quantum mechanics that avoids the most baffling features of the subatomic universe.

Olena Shmahalo/Quanta Magazine

Of the many counterintuitive features of quantum mechanics, perhaps the most challenging to our notions of common sense is that particles do not have locations until they are observed. This is exactly what the standard view of quantum mechanics, often called the Copenhagen interpretation, asks us to believe. Instead of the clear-cut positions and movements of Newtonian physics, we have a cloud of probabilities described by a mathematical structure known as a wave function.

The wave function, meanwhile, evolves over time, its evolution governed by precise rules codified in something called the Schrödinger equation. The mathematics are clear enough; the actual whereabouts of particles, less so. Until a particle is observed, an act that causes the wave function to “collapse,” we can say nothing about its location. Albert Einstein, among others, objected to this idea.

Saving Particle Positions

Bohmian mechanics was worked out by Louis de Broglie in 1927 and again, independently, by David Bohm in 1952, who developed it further until his death in 1992. (It’s also sometimes called the de Broglie–Bohm theory.) As with the Copenhagen view, there’s a wave function governed by the Schrödinger equation.

In addition, every particle has an actual, definite location, even when it’s not being observed. Changes in the positions of the particles are given by another equation, known as the “pilot wave” equation (or “guiding equation”). The theory is fully deterministic; if you know the initial state of a system, and you’ve got the wave function, you can calculate where each particle will end up.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/pilot-wave-theory-gains-experimental-support-20160516/

 

[river]

And we are coming full circle to David Bohm and the "Pilot Wave Theory" which postulates that particles never behave as waves but follow a path which is guided by the Universal Pilot wave, which actually solves all particle /wave contradictions.

QUANTUM PHYSICS
New Support for Alternative Quantum View
An experiment claims to have invalidated a decades-old criticism against pilot-wave theory, an alternative formulation of quantum mechanics that avoids the most baffling features of the subatomic universe.

Olena Shmahalo/Quanta Magazine

Saving Particle Positions
https://www.quantamagazine.org/pilot-wave-theory-gains-experimental-support-20160516/

What if Ten people are observing , the same thing at the same time .

 

[Write4U]

Let's look at 'particles' and if a subatomic particle can qualify as "matter".

Ask Ethan: Are Quantum Fields Real?

Ethan SiegelSenior Contributor
Starts With A Bang
Contributor Group
Science
The Universe is out there, waiting for you to discover it.
Patreon supporter Aaron Weiss wants to know, as he asks:

I would be very interested in a post about quantum fields. Are they generally/universally believed to be real and the most fundamental aspect of our universe or just a mathematical construct? I've read that there are 24 fundamental quantum fields: 12 fields for fermions and 12 for bosons. But I've also read about quantum fields for atoms, molecules, etc. How does that work? Does everything emerge from these 24 fields and their interactions?

Let's start with what a quantum field actually is.

The proton's structure, modeled along with its attendant fields, show how even though it's made out... [+]
BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY

In physics, a field, in general, describes what some property of the Universe is everywhere in space. It has to have a magnitude: an amount that the field is present. It may or may not have a direction associated with it; some fields do, like electric fields, some don't, like voltage fields. When all we had were classical fields, we stated that the fields must have some kind of source, like particles, which results in the fields existing all throughout space.

In quantum physics, though, this seemingly self-evident fact is no longer true. Whereas classical physics defines quantities like position and momentum as properties of a particle, and those properties would generate a corresponding field, quantum physics treats them differently. Instead of quantities, position and momentum (among other quantities) now become operators, which allow us to derive all the quantum weirdness you've heard so much about.

Through a herculean effort of the part of theoretical physicists, the muon magnetic moment has been... [+]
2012 AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY

A quantity like an electron no longer has a well-defined position or momentum, but rather a wavefunction that describes the probability distribution of all possible positions and momenta.

You may have heard these words before, but have you ever thought about what that actually means?

It means that the electron isn't a particle at all. It's not something you can put your finger on and declare, "the electron is here, moving with this particular speed in this particular direction." You can only state what the overall properties are, on average, of the space in which the electron exists.

This diagram illustrates the inherent uncertainty relation between position and momentum. When one... [+]
WIKIMEDIA COMMONS USER MASCHEN

That doesn't sound very particle-like, does it? In fact, that sounds more field-like: some property of the Universe everywhere in space. That's because, in quantum field theory (QFT), quantum fields aren't generated by matter. Instead, what we interpret as "matter" is itself a quantum field.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...k-ethan-are-quantum-fields-real/#3e882447777a

 

[river]

Let's look at 'particles' and if a subatomic particle can qualify as "matter".

Ask Ethan: Are Quantum Fields Real?

Ethan SiegelSenior Contributor
Starts With A Bang
Contributor Group
Science
The Universe is out there, waiting for you to discover it.
Patreon supporter Aaron Weiss wants to know, as he asks: Let's start with what a quantum field actually is.

The proton's structure, modeled along with its attendant fields, show how even though it's made out... [+]
BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY

Through a herculean effort of the part of theoretical physicists, the muon magnetic moment has been... [+]
2012 AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY

This diagram illustrates the inherent uncertainty relation between position and momentum. When one... [+]
WIKIMEDIA COMMONS USER MASCHEN
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...k-ethan-are-quantum-fields-real/#3e882447777a

You didn't' answer my question , post# 53

Yet Eddington found that the atom has a solid core .

 

[paddoboy]

Yet Eddington found that the atom has a solid core .

Wrong river, that was Professor Ernest Rutherford.
Eddington found the conclusive evidence supporting Einstein's GR theory in that spacetime warps in the presence of matter/energy and that light follows those same geodesics.

 

[river]

Wrong river, that was Professor Ernest Rutherford.
Eddington found the conclusive evidence supporting Einstein's GR theory in that spacetime warps in the presence of matter/energy and that light follows those same geodesics.

Rutherford then , found that the core of atom has a physical , solid core .

 

[paddoboy]

Rutherford then , found that the core of atom has a physical , solid core .

Yep, that's science.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Rutherford then , found that the core of atom has a physical , solid core .

Yep, that's science.

Of course .

 

[Write4U]

What if Ten people are observing , the same thing at the same time

The brains of all ten people would be making a "best guess" of what they are observing and it would be dependent on their POV.

Consider: a train track with a moving train at speed which is blowing it's whistle (wave frequencies). Behind the receding train stand 5 people and they all agree that the train whistle's frequency is the note of "c". At the other end of the track are 5 people listening to the train whistle as it approaches them and they all agree that the whistle's frequency is "d ".
Of these 10 observers, who is telling the truth and who is wrong?

They are all telling the truth and they are all wrong . The actual frequency of the train whistle is c# . The Doppler effect presents a "modified" frequency to all observers.

A photon does have a mathematical (quantum) value but this not a physical property. A photon is not "matter" it is a quanta of energetic value with a wavelength.
Abstract

The behavior of a photon is strange. It possesses both wave nature and particle nature. Some experiments show both behaviors of photons can exist simultaneously, while some other experiment state that both properties do not co-exists simultaneously.

According to electromagnetic theory, the rest mass of photon in free space is zero and also photon has non-zero rest mass, as well as wavelength-dependent. The very recent experiment revealed its non-zero value as 10-54kg

Even experimental results concluded that within matter (dispersive) the photon shows its imaginary rest mass. We have no exact answer as to why photon incarnates itself with versatile mass.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379719330943#

Photons
Last updated May 18, 2020

Even though photons have no mass, they have an observable momentum which follows the de Broglie equation. The momentum of photons leads to interesting practical applications such as optical tweezers.

Generally speaking, photons have similar properties to electromagnetic waves. Each photon has a wavelength and a frequency. The wavelength is defined as the distance between two peaks of the electric field with the same vector. The frequency of a photon is defined as how many wavelengths a photon propagates each second.

Unlike an electromagnetic wave, a photon cannot actually be of a color. Instead, a photon will correspond to light of a given color. As color is defined by the capabilities of the human eye, a single photon cannot have color because it cannot be detected by the human eye. In order for the retina to detect and register light of a given color, several photons must act on it. Only when many photons act in unison on the retina, as an electromagnetic wave, can color be perceived.

As Described by Maxwell's Equations

The most accurate descriptions we have about the nature of photons are given by Maxwell's equations. Maxwell's equations mathematically predict how photons move through space. Fundamentally, an electric field undergoing flux will create an orthogonal magnetic field. The flux of the magnetic field then recreates the electric field. The creation and destruction of each corresponding wave allows the wave pair to move through space at the speed of light. Maxwell's equations correctly describe the nature of individual photons within the framework of quantum dynamics.

Creation of Photons

Photons can be generated in many different ways. This section will discuss some of the ways photons may be emitted. As photons are electric field propagating through space, the emission of photons requires the movement of charged particles.

Blackbody Radiation

As a substance is heated, the atoms within it vibrate at higher energies. These vibrations rapidly change the shape and energies of electron orbitals. As the energy of the electrons changes, photons emitted and absorbed at energies corresponding to the energy of the change. Blackbody radiation is what causes light bulbs to glow, and the heat of an object to be felt from a great distance. The simplification of objects as blackbodies allows indirect temperature calculation of distant objects. Astronomers and kitchen infrared thermometers use this principle every day.

Spontaneous Emission

Photons may be spontaneously emitted when electons fall from an excited state to a lower energy state(usually the ground state). The technical term for this drop in energy is a relaxation. Electrons undergoing this type of emission will produce a very distinctive set of photons based on the available energy levels of their environment. This set of possible photons is the basis for an emission spectrum.

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...mental_Concepts_of_Quantum_Mechanics/Photons#