Your best reason for not comitting suicide

Magical Realist

Magical Realist

Valued Senior Member
This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?
 
Magical Realist said:
This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?
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Because really

It changes nothing
 
Magical Realist said:
This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?
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Suicide is generally short-sighted and selfish. Unless you're suffering from some terrible disease that you'll never recover from, there's every chance things will get better. You may even be able to use your experience to help others in a similar situation later on (which is what many suicidal people do, after they've come to their senses and come out on the other side of whatever's brought them to such a place). Imagine that: you not giving up might inspire others not to give up, and now you're officially a lifesaver.

If that isn't enough, consider what it will do to the people you love. You'll basically kill your parents, whose lives will never be the same and will never be truly happy again. Your brothers, sisters, friends and significant others will all be haunted by it, blaming themselves for not helping even though you never reached out or they didn't know how to handle it. You taking the easy way puts all that on their heads, and they'll never be free of it. That is just about the worst thing you can do to a person.
 
Magical Realist said:
This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?
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Because you don't know how the suicide will effect your afterlife. Blow your head off, and you might appear that way, as a ghost, to the horror of witnesses of the supernatural. Something like that happened in the movie The Conjuring, which is based upon a true story.
 
So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life?
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It also puts an immediate and permanent end to all the pleasure in your life.

At the moment, I am not suffering. In fact, I have been comfortable, productive and reasonably happy through most of my life, and expect to continue thus for a while longer, maybe even 10 or 15 years.
When [not if] life becomes more trouble than it's worth, I certainly mean to exit as gracefully as possible, given the sheer inconvenient size of a human corpse.

Killing anything bigger than an insect is not easy for most of us; killing a human can be quite difficult and messy. Killing self is very difficult: not only do you have to overcome animal instinct and fear, but you have only one chance get the mechanics right - fail, and your suffering is compounded by physical restraint. This is not something to attempt on a whim.
 
Magical Realist said:
This a not a cry for help. I'm simply positing a hypothetical for philosophical discussion. In a culture that does its damnedest keeping this subject from even being talked about, I dare to broach it here. So why NOT commit suicide? Wouldn't that put an immediate end to all the suffering in your life? A guaranteed pass to endless peace? What's a really good reason for sticking around?
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Life, warts and all, is a good reason for sticking around.

Interestingly, I read an article recently that said suicide rates in developed nations are the highest ever - particularly amongst youth. What's gone wrong, I wonder ?
 
Magical Realist said:
What's a really good reason for sticking around?
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The pre-philosophical and pre-scientific conditionings of everyday life that we encountered first, which one never truly escapes. Or at least, the apron strings of that "illusionary / deceptive" world of qualia, emotions, needs, habits, feelings, memories / meanings, and linguistic understandings which those who avoided making a pre-mature, deliberate contribution to the local cemetery never fully disentangled themselves from. [Just let the evolution-supplied fairy tales perform their job; there's another brand of those than just our artificial ones of gods and leprechauns.]

Steven Weinberg: "The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless."

Teed Rockwell: "For him [Paul Churchland], the thing that is most exciting about eliminativism is that it holds forth the possibility of experiencing the world in scientific terms, which is very different from merely knowing the facts of science."
[Actually, if one desired to experience what the "scientific realism" world is like in itself, independent of the folk psychology representations of humans... Then that could easily be had by death / suicide (i.e., you disappear and so does everything else; there is no experience; it has no consciousness).]
 
Balerion said:
Suicide is generally short-sighted and selfish. Unless you're suffering from some terrible disease that you'll never recover from, there's every chance things will get better. You may even be able to use your experience to help others in a similar situation later on (which is what many suicidal people do, after they've come to their senses and come out on the other side of whatever's brought them to such a place). Imagine that: you not giving up might inspire others not to give up, and now you're officially a lifesaver.

If that isn't enough, consider what it will do to the people you love. You'll basically kill your parents, whose lives will never be the same and will never be truly happy again. Your brothers, sisters, friends and significant others will all be haunted by it, blaming themselves for not helping even though you never reached out or they didn't know how to handle it. You taking the easy way puts all that on their heads, and they'll never be free of it. That is just about the worst thing you can do to a person.
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I'm sorry but THAT is short sighted. Its not selfish anymore than dying from a heart attack is selfish, its how depression kills. Instead of perpetuating myths that not only cause harm to those left behind, but also act to increase the stigma which prevents people seeking help in the first place which is the best way to PREVENT suicide, how about you actually seek some relevant sources

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...UCYNUEbD9LTmzqx1Q&sig2=-50DWKCiIfF7vvwyHWGmFg

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/

I don't see a single artical from a reputable mental health professional which says "suicide is selfish"
 
There are probably a lot of people who need purpose. Without purpose for their lives, maybe they wonder why they need to endure their existence. Religion is a good outlet for giving people purpose. So is national defense. Perhaps we should discuss some other ways to give people a sense of purpose, a sense that they belong to something that is more important then themselves. Perhaps that is the solution to suicide.
 
Asguard said:
I'm sorry but THAT is short sighted. Its not selfish anymore than dying from a heart attack is selfish, its how depression kills. Instead of perpetuating myths that not only cause harm to those left behind, but also act to increase the stigma which prevents people seeking help in the first place which is the best way to PREVENT suicide, how about you actually seek some relevant sources
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I have plenty relevant sources, including first-hand experience with depression, so how about you shove your condescending attitude? Suicide is not organ failure. It's a conscious decision. And you can drop the hyperbole, as well; I know what depression is, and calling suicide what it is certainly does nothing to prevent people from getting help. That's a ridiculous assertion.

I don't see a single artical from a reputable mental health professional which says "suicide is selfish"
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The only arguments I've ever read against suicide being selfish are emotional, like yours. You act like it can't be both desperate and selfish, that it can't be both an aspect of the condition and a conscious decision. These are false dilemmas.
 
I think that the laws of physics are a downer. We are so limited in what we can do. There are only four forces and a handful of elementary particles. It's not much to work with. We can only hope that dark matter affords us some additional forces.
 
Balerion said:
Suicide is generally short-sighted and selfish. Unless you're suffering from some terrible disease that you'll never recover from, there's every chance things will get better. You may even be able to use your experience to help others in a similar situation later on (which is what many suicidal people do, after they've come to their senses and come out on the other side of whatever's brought them to such a place). Imagine that: you not giving up might inspire others not to give up, and now you're officially a lifesaver.

If that isn't enough, consider what it will do to the people you love. You'll basically kill your parents, whose lives will never be the same and will never be truly happy again. Your brothers, sisters, friends and significant others will all be haunted by it, blaming themselves for not helping even though you never reached out or they didn't know how to handle it. You taking the easy way puts all that on their heads, and they'll never be free of it. That is just about the worst thing you can do to a person.
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I agree especially with your 2nd reason. The amount of suffering generated by suicide is greater than the amount it alleviates. In such a case, it becomes an ethical issue--do I have the right to inflict this on those who know and love me? My answer is no. Sure, we ALL have the right to do it. But does that right override the right of others not to be burdened with such an inexplicable tragedy. Maybe not. It's certainly not something I'D wanna cause.
 
Jeeves said:
It also puts an immediate and permanent end to all the pleasure in your life.

At the moment, I am not suffering. In fact, I have been comfortable, productive and reasonably happy through most of my life, and expect to continue thus for a while longer, maybe even 10 or 15 years.
When [not if] life becomes more trouble than it's worth, I certainly mean to exit as gracefully as possible, given the sheer inconvenient size of a human corpse.

Killing anything bigger than an insect is not easy for most of us; killing a human can be quite difficult and messy. Killing self is very difficult: not only do you have to overcome animal instinct and fear, but you have only one chance get the mechanics right - fail, and your suffering is compounded by physical restraint. This is not something to attempt on a whim.
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I think you nailed it. We greatly underestimate the benefits of existing over not existing. Sure there's some suffering and existential despair. But it's all that bright airy filler material--of the simply joys of eating, sleeping, dreaming, learning, traveling, creating, playing, loving--that we'd be saying goodbye to too. It's an incredibly lucky thing to be alive in an age such as ours where suffering is less than it's ever been and the quality of life is so much better. Offing ourselves would be like burning our winning jackpot lotto ticket. Being alive is fundamentally good, as long as we have choices and a degree of freedom to try new things.
 
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Mazulu said:
Because you don't know how the suicide will effect your afterlife. Blow your head off, and you might appear that way, as a ghost, to the horror of witnesses of the supernatural. Something like that happened in the movie The Conjuring, which is based upon a true story.
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So they say. I noticed the Conjuring is on my Xfinity On Demand listing. Probably be watching it this week sometime.
 
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Even though i have had no adult life totally ruined. I would never commit suicide as it would make those vile people responsible for my position feel good.

This world is full of vile trash just waiting to destroy lifes, they may have ruined mine, but i will not end it for them. I will die when i die
 
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